Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Soundminer
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Soundminer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:40 am

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Last edited by Soundminer on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

Soundminer
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:42 am

Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Soundminer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:11 am

Johnny Geudel wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:21 am
It is also true that I am the prime minister of Japan.

I could make a joke about belgians but I won't. This is the last respond I make to oneliners like this..They are extremely boring
Try putting in some effort instead.

Soundminer
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:42 am

Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Soundminer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:23 am

Soundminer wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:40 am
"The only way to ever be quick enough to allow the string to vibrate freely after release is to first push or pull the string inwards or outward at a sharp/obtuse angle compared to the top of the guitar so there will be a build up of sideway pressure into your finger either towards your head or towards your feet, giving you the actual space you need to pluck the string out and upwards and away from the top of the guitar"

It's all here

guit-box or anyone else, try and refute this by whatever close-up or slomo you want to use...I dare you.





It's all here...plucking from the PIP, the 'hooking' as you call it, the extending while planting, the release in opposite direction of the MCP at higher speeds (it has to!)

One HAS to do these things..it's not like you have a choice or anything. Being aware of it is a completely other thing.

So is understanding WHY you have to do these things, which is by far the most important tool anyone can have in learning anything.

It seems to me if we understand why...the mystery is solved

I understand why....it's all in the sentence.

Like I said...prove me wrong, I dare you

You say...ok, this is what i see and it's not in correspondance with what they say. You are correct

I do you one better and say..this is WHY you see this type of movement. A lack of understanding (the physics) and awareness is why they say different then they do. Not a crime by any means and very understandable, but...ready for improvement non the less.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:09 pm

If you really want to simplify how to look at the right hand free stroke movement and you have a solid left hand technique, then think of it as a pull-off or a hammer-on followed by an immediate pull-off. When I was developing my left hand technique, I remember practicing over-extending my MCP to get some height above the string to make a solid hammer. It's often advantageous to practice an exaggerated movement to develop the strength and coordination required to do the more minimal movement. The speed to the string from the MCP is important but to make the pull-off solid, you have to do a full and strong flexion from the middle and tip joints toward the next string. If you align all your left hand fingers on the first string in a tightly curved position and do a solid pull-off so that the finger flesh drives through the string and the finger tip arrives at touching the palm side of the MCP joint, that's the correct movement for a pull-off and it's basically the same thing that's required to get a solid and powerful free stroke. The MCP will automatically want to extend if you to a full PIP/DIP flexion.

Pepe's right hand is doing pull-offs.

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Soundminer
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Soundminer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:33 pm

yeah, notice it's called a pull off....not a pull in...kind of the whole point I am making

You have a hard time communicating mister. May or may not be within your might to do so normally, but I must say, it's starting to get on my tit.
I think I'll leave you to it.

Thanks very much for starting this thread though!

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:33 am

It doesn't seem reasonable to teach play-relax for each stroke but then not do it for arpeggios. See 4:00min. This is just confirmation that it's not about relaxing the finger back after each stroke as much as it is about coordinating movements. I see that he's mostly trying to do movements from the main knuckle joint, and he even demonstrates a big MCP follow through at times, but I don't think it's what he's doing when he's not demonstrating. Also, the articulation and control is lacking imo, there are many great players who do this better who are using opposing joint movements.

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:47 am

So good. Favio Z's technique is all about reaching out for the note and pulling it back. The very natural movement of extending the PIP out to the string and then flexing the PIP/TIP to pull the string back.

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:53 am

Yamashita, some reaching with the i finger at 7:20min and other closeups that show his RH technique.

Youtube


The best stuff starts at 20:45 min

Youtube


like most players with really long fingernails, Yamashita shows more of the opposite direction of the finger joints. Lots of PIP flexion and MCP extension. Not my favorite sound, but the movements are what's worth observing.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:10 am

Many guitarists consider Russell the gold standard for good tone and projection. Many of those same guitarists think you should pluck with the main thrust coming from the large knuckle joint. (MCP). Here is Russell clearly reaching out for the string with the index finger and plucking the note by flexing the middle joint (PIP)

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:14 am

Nice closeups

Links removed for copyright reasons
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:33 am

It doesn't seem to matter if you play off the right or left side of the nail, the release/pluck originates from the middle joint flexion


Youtube


2:00 min

Youtube


2 links removed for copyright reasons
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:43 pm

When a guitarist has long nails, their technique isn't necessarily different, but the string tends to be in contact with the nail for longer and you can really observe what is going on with the joints as the string slides from one side of the nail to the other and exits the finger. Here we can clearly see how the joint movement for free strokes and rest strokes is the same, the only difference is that the PIP follow through is interrupted by the resting string. Guitarists tell themselves all kinds of illogical things, one of those things is that free strokes are more middle joint (PIP) and rest strokes are more large knuckle joint (MCP), but it's not true, it's the same joint movement. Watch how the MCP relaxes or extends as PIP flexes to the resting string.


Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:14 pm

Trading one compromise for another. These guitarists who play off the right side of the nail have to deal with a very bent wrist and the issues that might create, but in comparison to the straight wrist, left side of nail players who approach the string at a 45 deg, they don't have to reach with the index finger or have to deal with the intersection of thumb and index. Watch anyone playing this piece who uses a straight wrist and plays off the left side of the nail and you'll see the index reaching. It's a different sound for sure, brighter and more percussive, but it does have a nice clarity that is sometimes lost when one always slices the string at a 45 deg angle.


Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:18 pm

Here's a slow motion of this guitarist's right hand. He appears to be playing off the right side of the nail and clearly he pulls the string more away from the guitar than some, but really, not that much. Even players who teach not to do this are actually doing this. You can really see from both angles how his finger lengthens to reach out for the string (MCP flexion while PIP extends) and then the moment the string is released it's the opposite movement (MCP extension while PIP flexion). The other thing you can clearly see is his finger waits to reach out for the string until just before it needs to, it doesn't just spring back on its own after every release. Play-relax may have some value as a practice technique, but it's not what guitarists are actually doing during performance.

slow motion excerpt

Youtube



Full video
Link removed for copyright reasons
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Robbie Flamerock
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Robbie Flamerock » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:10 pm

Guit-box. I think that at a certain speed you have to do what you are describing. Not necessarily at slower speeds. I'm wondering if the players that describe knuckle joint playing aren't simply showing it at slower speeds?

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