It probably depends on the player, for some very good players I know, they insist on the looseness in the tip joints and others say they use it for musical reasons only. But guitarists have trouble accepting that what works for one person one way can also work for another person another way. There are elements to right hand technique that are common among all the great players and there are elements that are variable. Tip joints seem to be one of those things that varies. I've gone back and forth myself about it, I can relax my tips and it feels great and the hand feels more relaxed than ever, but it can also feel like my tool looses some precision. For me, I'm still on the fence about doing it all the time. In order for me to be convinced that I should definitely always allow my tips to collapse, I'd need to see video footage of a lot of great players all doing it. This is one element that's very difficult to see in videos because the camera angles and resolution are not sharp enough many times. That said, there are several examples I posted of great players (such as Barrueco and Romeros) letting their tips bend back under string pressure.
I think you are giving far too much weight in your list to what accomplished concert players say they are doing and teach, and can't square this with your comment that great players often know very little about what their finger joints are actually doing.guit-box wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:52 amGreat players often know very little about what their finger joints are actually doing. The qualities required to be a great artist don't seem to be the same qualities that allows a person to analyze what they're actually doing. For this reason I rank information on technique in this order of importance.
1. What we can hear and see accomplished concert players actually doing.
2. What accomplished concert players say they are doing and teach
3. What a semi-professional player is doing based on what we can see and hear them doing
4. What a semi-professional players says they are doing and teaches
5. What someone on Delcamp says and can demonstrate.
6. What someone on Delcamp says who can't or hasn't demonstrated the technique.
Most of the people on this forum fall into category 6 and that's not what this thread is about. I'm interested in mostly what can be learned by critically looking at 1 and 2. If someone wants to demonstrate in a video where any of my observations of concert players is wrong and can make a convincing logical argument why I'm wrong, bring it on. So far no one has done that. I even posted videos of Denian's own playing (which is quite good) and pointed out how he releases the string with middle joint flexion, but he refuses to make the argument about how what we can see with our own eyes is false. I can only conclude it's because there is no logical argument in favor of the main knuckle centric dogma after seeing all the video proof, so all people like him and guitarista can do is criticize without providing any real video evidence. If you've got some goods, then by all means, make a tutorial video that explains your position on right hand technique and post it.
+1guitarrista wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:55 am... AAAND, we are back to regularly scheduled programming. Do post some more slowed-down videos!
(Funny that you fall within your category 6: "6.What someone on Delcamp says who can't or hasn't demonstrated the technique." oops! )
No one wants to argue anymore with you not because there is nothing to say, but because no one cares anymore if you see or understand the deficiencies and limitations of your hypothesis. But just try to submit what your have as an article in a peer-reviewed international journal - I dare you - you will discover you will have to actually deal with the same feedback you already received from several people, and more, and you can't just ignore it or demolish strawmen or keep repeating the same thing over and over or put words in people's mouths. I am done advocating for caution with your analysis. After four years of practicing what you preach, you must be a guitar wizard. Good for you. Carry on.
It seems that the harpists use a wrist rotation as an integral part of most every pluck, which is very different from classical guitar technique. Interestingly some people will teach to do that for pull-offs in the left hand, but for guitarists, that movement is limiting for pull-offs. I do think the harpists are generally doing free-strokes like guitarists do and they don't follow through much with the MCP when doing technically demanding things. I do think there is value to compare techniques of similarly plucked instruments like harp, electric and upright bass. I posted some of those previously but the moderators have a policy about no electric guitar posts. Bass players are doing an exchange of first moving to the string with the MCP and then transferring the work to the DIP/PIP flexion and the MCP extends at that point. The joint movements are the same for classical guitarists.