Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Luis_Br
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Luis_Br » Mon May 04, 2015 4:45 pm

I've tried it, in the "Galbraith" position, so guitar is quite up. Be careful not to raise up the guitar head too much.
I could get a nice sound, everything was going fine, but I couldn't find a good sound for the thumb. Thumb became too far and to the side and I like more frontal attack with the thumb. So I went back to left side. But when going back to the left side I could get better sound. I've learn something trying this. My last teacher could play both sides, according to the tone quality he desires...

Zach S
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Zach S » Wed May 20, 2015 4:48 am

Another left- to right-side convert here! I found, on the whole, it works much better for my right-hand. I'd always felt a slight tension in my forearm while I still played on the left-side, which has all but disappeared since I switched to the other side. As for raising the guitar head, I haven't found the transition too bad -- though I suppose I have always favoured a rather steep angle (and I've realised looking back that might explain some things, hmm).

Another guitarist who plays somewhat-off-centre-to-the-right of his nails in Thomas Viloteau. I quite enjoy his interpretations and he has a great tone -- his Usher Waltz, in particular, is a favourite of mine.
If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. -- Henry David Thoreau

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Thu May 21, 2015 1:15 am

A different perspective..In the past I could not imagine playing off the right side. Then I got a lute and with pinkie on the soundboard and fingers much less perpendicular(flattish to the strings) it is natural to play off the right side.
On guitar I saw an Alice Arzt video which is I guess close to the Presti-Lagoya type position . She is absolutely convincing though I think it could be a dangerous position if done without guidance(I mean too much of an angle without the necessary perfect poise and relaxation)

Zach S
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Zach S » Thu May 21, 2015 10:04 pm

Of course, the lute! I had this nagging feeling I'd forgotten to mention something in my post -- most lutenists do play on the right-side of their fingertips (and would shudder at the mention nails, haha).

When I was switching over, I made sure to reference a few lute technique videos; though they use their thumb differently (curves in towards the palm, behind the fingers as opposed to in front of the fingers), it really helps settle the idea. Plus, I like to fancy I have a semi-decent righthand for playing the lute now, heh.
If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. -- Henry David Thoreau

Luis_Br
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Luis_Br » Fri May 22, 2015 1:54 am

Tonyyyyy wrote:A different perspective..In the past I could not imagine playing off the right side. Then I got a lute and with pinkie on the soundboard and fingers much less perpendicular(flattish to the strings) it is natural to play off the right side.
On guitar I saw an Alice Arzt video which is I guess close to the Presti-Lagoya type position . She is absolutely convincing though I think it could be a dangerous position if done without guidance(I mean too much of an angle without the necessary perfect poise and relaxation)

I didn't understand how to play from right side with pinkie on the soundboard. I was meaning finger touches the string on the right side first and string slides toward the center of the finger, from Presti school. To do this pinkie is further from soundboard than regular playing. Some great players from this school you find at youtube:
Evanglos Assimakopoulos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUe7CbTwkM
Gerard Abiton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eht6710aauo
Look how their pinky is more up toward strings an hand in reverse angle. How would they put pinkie over the soundboard?

An important point to this technique, that was explained by Artzt, is that wrist bends down, not to the side (the latter is quite dangerous). You rotate forearm a bit out and let hand falls down. You also use some different muscles that move fingers a bit to the outside in some sort of rotation, same movement to hold tight a screw-driver (pinkie and a-finger muscles are very strong in this gripping), as explained by Artzt. With this you avoid moving and tensing too much the tendons that go through the wrist. You keep most of the work inside the hand, thus you avoid getting bothered by a bit more wrist bend.
Last edited by Luis_Br on Fri May 22, 2015 2:03 am, edited 4 times in total.

Luis_Br
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Luis_Br » Fri May 22, 2015 1:55 am

...
(edition mistake)

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Sun May 31, 2015 12:51 pm

LuisBr said ''I didn't understand how to play from right side with pinkie on the soundboard. I was meaning finger touches the string on the right side first and string slides toward the center of the finger, from Presti school. To do this pinkie is further from soundboard than regular playing. Some great players from this school you find at youtube:
Evanglos Assimakopoulos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUe7CbTwkM
Gerard Abiton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eht6710aauo
Look how their pinky is more up toward strings an hand in reverse angle. How would they put pinkie over the soundboard?''

Here is a fairly typical ren. lute position https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRC8JDT ... 4C63D9AE5E . Yes its a total contrast to the two guitarists!

Thanks also for the insight into the Presti/Artzt RH position

Pete Meyers

Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Pete Meyers » Sun May 31, 2015 1:36 pm

The only draw back I can see would be not being able to visually asses your point of contact as readily

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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby kmurdick » Sun May 31, 2015 3:17 pm

There is not a right or wrong way here, everything is a compromise. I would start with 'a' finger perpendicular to the string and then experiment with tilting to the right and left, but not too far. Listen to the tone and let your ear decide.

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Sun May 31, 2015 11:28 pm

Pete Meyers wrote:The only draw back I can see would be not being able to visually asses your point of contact as readily


i guess that on guitar - without a mirror- we do better to judge things by touch rather than sight....though sometimes i must admit to leaning over and having a good look at what I am doing :chaud:

Pete Meyers

Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Pete Meyers » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:44 pm

Tonyyyyy wrote:
Pete Meyers wrote:The only draw back I can see would be not being able to visually asses your point of contact as readily


i guess that on guitar - without a mirror- we do better to judge things by touch rather than sight....though sometimes i must admit to leaning over and having a good look at what I am doing :chaud:


I practice in front of a mirror to reinforce that what I'm feeling is correct. It is so easy to bend a wrist, or twist a neck/spine without realizing it.

In the context of this discussion, I find that my mirror is absolutely essential to monitoring my point of contact with each finger.

Luis_Br
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Luis_Br » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Besides tilting over the plane of the soundboard, I also recomend some tilting perpendicular to it, through rotating a bit the forearm. I think it is important to be open minded to explore all possible dimensions. In the beginning I was quite rigid keeping fingers perpendicular to strings, when I started rotating forearm a bit, I discovered a lot of other options.

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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Jeffrey Armbruster » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:21 pm

I play mostly straight on and/or slightly to the right side. It's a relief to hear that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, I recently saw Scott Tennant's video on ramping. I assumed that I played on the left, and started shaping my nails to ramp on that side. Now that I know I'm more of a straight on player, how do you shape your nails to maximize nail contact with the string in the way that Tennant advises? Is this even possible? also: I experimented a bit with deliberately alternating playing left/right side of my nails. There was a slight tonal difference. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned utilizing the tonal difference for effect. But how could you ramp for this?

I'm leaning towards maintaining my regular 'rounded' nail shape (follow the contour of my fingers). I seem to be hooking strings a bit more with the new flatter shape of my nails. But I just may not have dialed in the whole thing yet.

I could imagine wrapping a small piece of sandpaper on several strings and then playing. This would automatically wear your nails to a shape that matches how you actually strike the strings.--sort of like a wear pattern on the soles of your shoes.
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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:51 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:I could imagine wrapping a small piece of sandpaper on several strings and then playing. This would automatically wear your nails to a shape that matches how you actually strike the strings.--sort of like a wear pattern on the soles of your shoes.


Some top player or teacher did recommend this(fine sandpaper wrapped around one string) I forgot who it was.

An individualised solution

metronome

Re: Playing off the right side of the right hand fingers?

Postby metronome » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:47 am

Tonyyyyy wrote:
Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:I could imagine wrapping a small piece of sandpaper on several strings and then playing. This would automatically wear your nails to a shape that matches how you actually strike the strings.--sort of like a wear pattern on the soles of your shoes.


Some top player or teacher did recommend this(fine sandpaper wrapped around one string) I forgot who it was.

An individualised solution


I have also seen multiple instructors recommend doing this. I suppose this works once one's technique is well developed.


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