L'infidele in E or D Minor?

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Altophile
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L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:40 pm

Hello all,

Does anyone know whether Weiss' famous L'infidele suite has been arranged in either E Minor or D Minor? I found an arrangement of Entree in E Minor at Sheetmusicplus, but I haven't found the whole suite in that key (or D Minor).

Thanks,
~Sean

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Bernhard Heimann
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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:24 pm

All I've got are two arrangements in A minor (Rolf Dannehl, Thomas Koenigs). If you're interested, please
send me a PM.

Bernhard

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:57 am

Bernhard Heimann wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:24 pm
All I've got are two arrangements in A minor (Rolf Dannehl, Thomas Koenigs). If you're interested, please
send me a PM.

Bernhard
Hi Bernhard,

I also have two arrangements in A Minor, but I find at least the Musette to be unplayable in that key, so I'm trying to see if either an alternate tuning or an alternate key will help.

Thanks for the offer, though!

~Sean

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:06 pm

Hi Sean,

do you have the same two arrangements that I mentioned?
They both seem not too difficult or unplayable to me, but I've not played them yet :wink:

Bernhard

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:31 pm

Bernhard Heimann wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:06 pm
Hi Sean,

do you have the same two arrangements that I mentioned?
They both seem not too difficult or unplayable to me, but I've not played them yet :wink:

Bernhard
Hi Bernhard,

Actually, it turns out that I have five arrangements, one by Thomas Koenigs, one by Richard Sayage, one by Rolf Dannehl, one by Petr Saidl, and one by Jens Franke. All are in A Minor with a Musette that is unplayable by me:-( Before I experiment with D Minor tuning I thought I'd see if an alternate key would help, and E Minor and D Minor seemed the most likely candidates.

~Sean

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pogmoor
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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by pogmoor » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:09 pm

The difficulty with arranging this suite in any key lower than A minor on the guitar is that you lose too much of the bass range that contributes to the character of the music. Do any of the arrangements you have use E bass tuning? Arrangements with dropped D are better because it's useful to have the low D in A minor but in normal E tuning the musette is considerably easier to play. If you can get hold of Philippe Meunier's arrangement, published by Breitkopf and Hartel (Edition Breitkopf 6770), you would find it easier to play (though you may not necessarily want to use his fingering).
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 am

pogmoor wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:09 pm
The difficulty with arranging this suite in any key lower than A minor on the guitar is that you lose too much of the bass range that contributes to the character of the music. Do any of the arrangements you have use E bass tuning? Arrangements with dropped D are better because it's useful to have the low D in A minor but in normal E tuning the musette is considerably easier to play. If you can get hold of Philippe Meunier's arrangement, published by Breitkopf and Hartel (Edition Breitkopf 6770), you would find it easier to play (though you may not necessarily want to use his fingering).
Thank you for the recommendation; I'll definitely check out Meunier's arrangement.

I'm currently using a seven-string guitar, and hoped that this would help me avoid sacrificing the bass range too much. I found that Weiss' Ciacona is easier in E Minor than in A Minor on a seven-string (capo third fret to sound in G Minor), and figured that the Musette may be as well, but I just don't have time right now to arrange it in E Minor myself. And, of course, with a D Minor arrangement I might even gain some bass over the A Minor arrangement, although, since the key would be higher then the bass would be as well.

~Sean

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by pogmoor » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:54 am

Altophile wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 am
And, of course, with a D Minor arrangement I might even gain some bass over the A Minor arrangement, although, since the key would be higher then the bass would be as well.
Now I'm a little bit confused. The E minor version of the Entree you mention in your first post is lower than the usual A minor version (if my memory serves me correctly). You can arrange the suite in the D above the usual A minor key. The basses then gain, but the music becomes harder to play, using more high positions. Have a look at the attached file which shows (in rough preliminary form) the first page of the Musette in D minor.


MusetteGtrDp1.jpg
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Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:16 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:54 am
Altophile wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 am
And, of course, with a D Minor arrangement I might even gain some bass over the A Minor arrangement, although, since the key would be higher then the bass would be as well.
Now I'm a little bit confused. The E minor version of the Entree you mention in your first post is lower than the usual A minor version (if my memory serves me correctly). You can arrange the suite in the D above the usual A minor key. The basses then gain, but the music becomes harder to play, using more high positions. Have a look at the attached file which shows (in rough preliminary form) the first page of the Musette in D minor.



MusetteGtrDp1.jpg
I can understand your confusion:-)

By way of explanation, I recently observed that Weiss’ Ciacona in G Minor is easier to play in both E Minor (a lower key) and A Minor (a higher key). This made me wonder whether the Musette (or even the entire L’infidele Suite) might be easier in either a lower (E Minor) or higher (D Minor) key. I have a seven-string guitar, so going lower would probably work, but I have a hunch that the piece may sound better in D Minor. I’d like to give both approaches a try.

Going higher on the keyboard isn’t necessarily harder for me. The difficulty lies in some of the stretches in the A Minor version, which may actually be alleviated by going higher on the neck.

How long did it take you to arrange page 1 of the Musette in D Minor? If you could arrange the entire piece in that key, or even the entire Suite, I’d pay you for your trouble. Send me a private message to discuss if you’d consider that.

~Sean
Last edited by Altophile on Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pogmoor
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Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by pogmoor » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:43 pm

Altophile wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:16 pm
How long did it take you to arrange page 1 of the Musette in D Minor? If you could arrange the entire piece in that key, or even the entire Suite, I’d pay you for your trouble. Send me a private message to discuss if you’d consider that.
Hello Sean,
I've had the idea of doing my own arrangement of L'Infidele for some time but never got round to it. However I have got nice clean MIDI files of all the movements so it only took me half an hour or so to do a preliminary arrangement of the Musette. Rather than do it on a commercial basis I'll do a full arrangement of the suite in D minor and publish it here on Delcamp (you may not be the only person interested). I can't promise to do it right away as I've got one or two other things on the go - but it shouldn't be too long.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

Altophile
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:36 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: L'infidele in E or D Minor?

Post by Altophile » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:52 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:43 pm
Altophile wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:16 pm
How long did it take you to arrange page 1 of the Musette in D Minor? If you could arrange the entire piece in that key, or even the entire Suite, I’d pay you for your trouble. Send me a private message to discuss if you’d consider that.
Hello Sean,
I've had the idea of doing my own arrangement of L'Infidele for some time but never got round to it. However I have got nice clean MIDI files of all the movements so it only took me half an hour or so to do a preliminary arrangement of the Musette. Rather than do it on a commercial basis I'll do a full arrangement of the suite in D minor and publish it here on Delcamp (you may not be the only person interested). I can't promise to do it right away as I've got one or two other things on the go - but it shouldn't be too long.
That would be great, thanks:-)

If I could ever find time to figure out how to use Musescore I could work on one in E Minor just to compare sound and play-ability, etc., but that program, like all music notation programs, just vexes me.

As just one example, I watched the instructional video series, which would be great if all I wanted to do was compose a piece consisting of a series of single notes, but I have yet to see instructions on how to build a chord, or a triplet with 7 notes, etc. I can create an arrangement of Row, Row, Row Your Boat where the melody consists of a series of single notes. But who, I ask, would want to do that?

~Sean

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