PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

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Respect Copyrights : Any messages offering illegal material or links to sites that provide unauthorized, copyrighted material will be removed by the moderators.
John O

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby John O » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:02 am

SrDedosRapidos wrote:What about the performance of an artists work that you have purchased an arrangement of?


Exactly! I always thought that the purchase price included performance rights. Many scores request that the edition be identified when publicly performed. Plus, with that 70 year period, we could never post performances of contemporary music. Also, if a person does not sell an MP3 of a performance, no one is profiting from the performance, and it's unlikely that many readers would have the wherewithal to aurally transcribe a piece!

SrDedosRapidos

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby SrDedosRapidos » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:39 pm

estrasino wrote:Here is a discussion about this subject... perhaps you will find some useful information:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15268&hilit=club+owner


Yep! That pretty much answered it.

I had assumed that the performer was abstained from any copyright responsibilities and/or legal libations associated with a copyrighted work, but i didnt want to break out the torroba and find myself in court a month later for it! :D

Notturno

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Notturno » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:28 pm

So the majority of recordings on youtube should be considered as a violation?

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Vesuvio
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Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Vesuvio » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:44 pm

Hello Notturno,

Notturno wrote:So the majority of recordings on youtube should be considered as a violation?


I do not know what proportion of the material on YouTube is in violation of copyright, but some of it certainly is. If you use the search function you will be able to track down several discussions about YouTube and its position regarding copyright.

This forum's position is quite clear, we have rules and we don't break the law,

Best wishes, V
"There are only two things worth aiming for, good music and a clean conscience." Paul Hindemith

Azalais

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Azalais » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:47 pm

Many videos have already been removed from youtube... (and many more probably should be... performances of contemporary pieces that violate the rights of living composers and arrangers, unauthorized clips of live performances, illegally pirated clips from broadcast television and commercial DVDs, clips with background music ripped from CDs, etc) and yes, google/youtube has a much bigger budget for legal defense than we do, so they can wait for someone to complain.. :roll: We can't afford to take those chances, so the rules for links are the same as the rules for posting a piece directly on the forum...

Stefan Wester

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Stefan Wester » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:38 pm

There are some Turina, Pujol and Segovia music in the Rischel-Birkel Smith Collection that you can download as pdf-files. These editions are still copyright protected, but it seems like the staff at the library don´t know anything about this. Most of the music in the collection are public domain exept for the pieces and arrangements by these composers...

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Jean-François Delcamp
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Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Jean-François Delcamp » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:30 am

Example: You must wait 70 years after the death of the composer before you can post an .mp3, even if the print version has already entered the public domain.

There are some print versions of Llobet's work that are already in the Public Domain, such as "El Testament d'Amelia", but you must wait till January 1, 2008 before you have the right to post an .mp3 of that piece on the forum.
:( + ♫ = :)

SrDedosRapidos

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby SrDedosRapidos » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:38 am

Jean-François Delcamp wrote:Example: You must wait 70 years after the death of the composer before you can post an .mp3, even if the print version has already entered the public domain.

There are some print versions of Llobet's work that are already in the Public Domain, such as "El Testament d'Amelia", but you must wait till January 1, 2008 before you have the right to post an .mp3 of that piece on the forum.


Yep.
Im currently learning that!
Im uploading at 12:00am 1-1-09 :mrgreen:

Nick Payne
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Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby Nick Payne » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:27 am

I have a question regarding the music of Barrios. The first message in this thread states that one must wait 70 years from the death of the composer, but there are quite a number of Barrios scores and also mp3 interpretations of his music available from this forum. However, it hasn't been 70 years since his death in 1944: that won't be until 2014.

wolfgang

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby wolfgang » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:03 am

Nick Payne wrote:I have a question regarding the music of Barrios. The first message in this thread states that one must wait 70 years from the death of the composer, but there are quite a number of Barrios scores and also mp3 interpretations of his music available from this forum. However, it hasn't been 70 years since his death in 1944: that won't be until 2014.


Barrios is an exception to the rule, he had no heirs and his work went into public domain.

aguitarist

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby aguitarist » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:09 am

Moore on copyrights: if the composer is not a member of EU and his first publications were not in EU, would Bern Convention apply of EC directive???

The Bern convention is clear on that: Article 3 (Eligibility for protection), EU directive not.

In addition, if visitor of the web site is also not from EU, which legislation would apply???

Qualified opinions, please….

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GeoffB
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Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby GeoffB » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:25 pm

For simplicity the forum uses the European rules for length of copyright, but where composers are not EU citizens there may be other definitions allowable. However, rules in some countries can be very complex, and moderators are not international copyright lawyers, nor do they have the time or expertise to check every case for eligibility.

If you wish to upload or link to a particular piece which you believe to be public domain but which does not fit into the existing rules, please ask the moderators first, giving details of the composer's nationality and date of death, the year and country of publication, whether the option to renew copyright was exercised where applicable (and, if so, in which year), a quote of the relevant legislation articles (with translation into English if necessary), and a link to an official government website carrying full details of the said legislation. We shall then consider it and get back to you.

In cases of uncertainty over the acceptability of a direct link, remember that it is sometimes easier to provide suitable keywords to allow other members to find the item by searching for it themselves.

Geoff
Classical Guitar Forum.

"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright

aguitarist

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby aguitarist » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:04 pm

Thank you for the opinion. The copyright laws are occasionally difficult to apply. One of my favorite composers Agustín Barrios Mangoré is almost out of 70 years limit (5 years to go according to EU rules, but out of 50 years limit), however he was born in Paraguay, died in San Salvador, and I presume that his original works were firstly published in South America.

Would he be considerd "out of limits" on our site?

Thank you for considering this issue.

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GeoffB
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Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby GeoffB » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:58 pm

You're in luck there. As Wolfgang said in an earlier post on this thread, Barrios Mangoré is one of the few exceptions, in that he had no heirs and so his works are in the public domain. You'll find quite a few examples of them on the forum.

Geoff
Classical Guitar Forum.

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aguitarist

Re: PUBLIC DOMAIN (definitions)

Postby aguitarist » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:43 pm

Thank you Geoff, It is really a piece of good news.

Let me proceed with my copyright queries:

As far as authorship is convened it is clear (is spite of the ambiguities mentioned before). How about copyrights of the arrangers? The real question is: what constitutes an arrangement that is eligible for protection? Is it charge of key signature, add on a few notes for harmony (e-g- for violin solo transcriptions), fingering of the left hand...

My discussions with some friends (lawyers) resulted in the following opinion:

only novel and non-obvious contributions could constitute a copyright protectable arrangement

This all sounds good, but who is to judge non-obviousness. Entering a natural fingering in the music sheet (e.g. F tone played on the first string / first fret with the string pressed with the first finger of the left hand would not qualify for copyright protection).

Copyright does not need to be registered / publicly stated, to be valid. Today many music sheets of the "free" composers carry name of the arranger. How can one judge if it is relay eligible for arranger's copyright? Could you please pass your opinion here.

Thanx

Alex


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