I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
glassynails
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I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by glassynails » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:22 pm

To be honest I never really play in the "classical position" at all. 90% of the time I'm sitting on the side of my bed with my left leg crossed over my right and the guitar sitting on my left thigh. I've always played this way and felt pretty natural. No, it's not as ideal as the proper classical position, but most of the time it works for me. The other percentage of the time I'm sitting on my bed in "indian" position with the guitar on my right leg (like a folky would play it). I know none of this is "ideal", but it's how I've played for years. I just feel to akward with the whole footstool thing, although I could do it if I had too I guess. Does anyone else not play in the "classical" position most of the time?


:)
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

GuitarVlog

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by GuitarVlog » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:43 pm

Nope.



What's with the Paris Hilton avatar?

Evangelos Skropidas

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Evangelos Skropidas » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:45 pm

My best friend never used a foot stool. When he played for his teacher, and the piece was hard and he made mistakes, his teacher would give him the foot stool and stare hard at him. Needless to say he played better with his leg raised. In my case I often play without a foot stool, by sitting on y sofa which offers a low enough position so as to get the guitar raised.It is a most comfortable position but I have issues with my right hand angle, so I only do it when I play for 5-10 minutes only.

glassynails
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Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by glassynails » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:09 pm

GuitarVlog wrote:

What's with the Paris Hilton avatar?
Decoration? :D
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

Dons

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Dons » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:23 pm

I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.

Evangelos Skropidas

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Evangelos Skropidas » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:32 pm

Unfortunately I dont own a music stand. I cant afford it :( I do manage to somehow support my music books in various places but I have to admit that it is far from comfortable.

Eva Bonin

Re: I'm never really totally in a "classical" posture

Post by Eva Bonin » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:14 am

Evangelos Skropidas wrote:Unfortunately I dont own a music stand. I cant afford it :( I do manage to somehow support my music books in various places but I have to admit that it is far from comfortable.

If this is true please give me your address and I will mail you a music stand. They cost next to nothing in the UK. Travesty!

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk 2

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Michael.N.
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Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Dons wrote:I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.
The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!
Historicalguitars.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:39 pm

yes, I totally agree with the Michael footstool and "classical position" are not really good from ergonomic point of view - more someone will play in this position - more likely he will have back pain, injuries and other health problems...
This forum is provides many examples of it.
But there is one very simple solution to problem of "glassynails" who started this topic - why not to play standing with guitar?
Michael.N. wrote:
Dons wrote:I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.
The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!
I'd better speak by music...Please listen it on Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, etc. Thanks!

Evangelos Skropidas

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Evangelos Skropidas » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:51 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:yes, I totally agree with the Michael footstool and "classical position" are not really good from ergonomic point of view - more someone will play in this position - more likely he will have back pain, injuries and other health problems...
This forum is provides many examples of it.
But there is one very simple solution to problem of "glassynails" who started this topic - why not to play standing with guitar?
Michael.N. wrote:
Dons wrote:I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.
The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!
No offense Andrei, but playing standing up is tiring for the feet. I prefer to sit, I am lazy. A question, is it wrong to just sit in a low enough chair/stool, so as to have the left thigh naturally raised? I dont see why it couldnt work,but then again I dont see many obvious things...

kefka

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by kefka » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:11 pm

glassynails wrote:To be honest I never really play in the "classical position" at all. 90% of the time I'm sitting on the side of my bed with my left leg crossed over my right and the guitar sitting on my left thigh. I've always played this way and felt pretty natural. No, it's not as ideal as the proper classical position, but most of the time it works for me. The other percentage of the time I'm sitting on my bed in "indian" position with the guitar on my right leg (like a folky would play it). I know none of this is "ideal", but it's how I've played for years. I just feel to akward with the whole footstool thing, although I could do it if I had too I guess. Does anyone else not play in the "classical" position most of the time?


:)
Most Flamenco guitarists that i have seen live, especially the ones that include gypsy dancers in the act, most always play the guitar crosslegged with the guitar on the right leg. I always thought of it as a cool way to play live.

Evangelos Skropidas

Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Evangelos Skropidas » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:44 pm

I cant play like that, the neck is not raised enough, and my right arm doesnt attack the strings the way it should. I did want it to work though...

Jeffrey.C
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Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Jeffrey.C » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Dons wrote:I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.
The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!

The footstool isn't causing the injury, it's not knowing how to use it properly that's what gives players back pains and whatever.
"If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music." - Gustav Mahler

Gaius46
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Re: I'm never really totally in a "classical" posture

Post by Gaius46 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:43 am

Evangelos Skropidas wrote:
AndreiKrylov wrote:yes, I totally agree with the Michael footstool and "classical position" are not really good from ergonomic point of view - more someone will play in this position - more likely he will have back pain, injuries and other health problems...
This forum is provides many examples of it.
But there is one very simple solution to problem of "glassynails" who started this topic - why not to play standing with guitar?
Michael.N. wrote: The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!
No offense Andrei, but playing standing up is tiring for the feet. I prefer to sit, I am lazy. A question, is it wrong to just sit in a low enough chair/stool, so as to have the left thigh naturally raised? I dont see why it couldnt work,but then again I dont see many obvious things...
This is how I play much of time. I either use a drummer's throne or sometimes on the living room sofa. In either care my left knee is elevated.

When playing with my band I often stand for 2 hours at a time - shouldering a13 pound instrument. You get used to it. Though like you I prefer sitting :)
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Guitar: Yamaha CG131S
Bass: Warwick Corvette Fretless 6 String, Fender Jazz 5, Rickenbacker 4001

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Michael.N.
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Re: I'm never really totally in a " -classical" - posture

Post by Michael.N. » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:11 am

Jeffrey.C wrote:
Michael.N. wrote:
Dons wrote:I suspect that if one is going to play long term, that using a foot stool and playing in the correct position will help to avoid player injuries. I think we can "get away" with any position in our younger years but as we play more complex pieces that require faster changes and holding down lots of string, poor posture can catch up with us. This being said, I think we all find ourselves in situations where we do not have our foot stool and music stand and want to play a few pieces.
The footstool might be a cause of long term injuries - at least for some Players.
Plenty of alternatives to the footstool and playing the guitar on the edge of the bed!

The footstool isn't causing the injury, it's not knowing how to use it properly that's what gives players back pains and whatever.
Chicken or the egg? The footstool raises the left leg higher than the plane of the hip. Pretty much every ergonomic material that I've read on the seated position has BOTH legs sloping down, with the knees lower than the hips.
Whichever way you look at it the classical footstool position is not a 'natural' position for any human being to be in for any lengthy period of time. You can say the same for a Guitar strap, ergoplay, dynarette etc. but at least these devices place the person in what is considered a more ergonomical position. They have also become very popular.
Historicalguitars.

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