New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
Wojduch

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Wojduch » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:51 am

Thank you both, Steve and Kris. I really appreciate your help. I'll wait for Lagartija's comment and if s/he confirms the magnets hold on a thick side, I'll finally be able to buy this baby!

@Kris
kris barnett wrote:decreases exponentially with distance, meaning that the strength of the magnetic field weakens very quickly in very short distances.
I just love this succinct definition of the adverb. A new word a day, keeps your brain awake 8)

Wojciech

Ramon Amira
Teacher
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:44 am
Location: New York City

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Ramon Amira » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:05 am

One of my students asked me for a recommendation for a support, and after reading the comments on this post, I went to the site. Perhaps I missed it, but I could not find any video of someone actually playing using one of these supports, which is the first thing any potential buyer wants to see. If I missed it, could someone point me to a video of the support in action, and see a player adjusting it into different positions, etc.

Also, since the sides contribute - albeit far less than the top - to the sound, might not all that weight on a side inhibit sound. Unless the theory is that that spot would rest on the player's thigh anyway. Also might not any object inside inhibit the natural flow of sound waves.

Ramon
Classical and Flamenco guitar lessons via Skype worldwide - Classical and Flamenco guitars from Spain

User avatar
lagartija
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10165
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by lagartija » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:10 am

Wojduch wrote:Thank you both, Steve and Kris. I really appreciate your help. I'll wait for Lagartija's comment and if s/he confirms the magnets hold on a thick side, I'll finally be able to buy this baby!

@Kris
kris barnett wrote:decreases exponentially with distance, meaning that the strength of the magnetic field weakens very quickly in very short distances.
I just love this succinct definition of the adverb. A new word a day, keeps your brain awake 8)

Wojciech

The magnets do hold onto the thick sides, although I have to be careful not to put significant weight on the guitar when I lean over and make notes on my score. I used to be in the habit of totally leaning on the guitar as I made notes when I used the footstool. The magnets aren't strong enough to take that sort of load! 8) Also, Kris recommended that I use the adhesive tape instead of the putty that held the magnets in place in the prototype support. But I have not yet done that. :oops: There is a possibility that using the putty puts the magnets further away from the side, although it may not. When I took the magnets out to move them to a new position when I got the newest support, I noticed that the putty was squished out amazingly thin by the magnetic force after being in place so long. So I'm not sure that it makes any difference.
The newest support uses the adhesive strips to hold the magnets in place. The support does not slip off when I play. The only time it has slipped off was when I was leaning over to pick something up off the floor or write on the score and pushed sideways on the support or leaned on the guitar. Normal playing is not a problem.

Ramon, whether it makes a difference might depend on the design of the guitar. That is why I advised asking the luthier who made it. Mine is a lattice braced design and the sides are laminated for stiffness and the back shaped and also laminated. According to Alan Chapman, the magnets would not have a significant effect if placed on the side of the guitar. A leg or cushion would damp it just as much. The air motion is not impeded significantly by the small cross section of the magnet pads.
Different guitar design and YMMV.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

Wojduch

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Wojduch » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:38 am

lagartija wrote:The magnets do hold onto the thick sides
Thank you so much. Your comments and extensive explanations really help a lot!
lagartija wrote:According to Alan Chapman, the magnets would not have a significant effect if placed on the side of the guitar.
The builder of my guitar - Rafal Turkowiak - is of the same opinion: the magnets should not affect the acoustic qualities of the instrument.
Ramon Amira wrote:If I missed it, could someone point me to a video of the support in action, and see a player adjusting it into different positions, etc.
It's probably not exactly what you're looking for but you may want to have a look at Mr. Bradford Werner's "thisisclassicalguitar" website where he reviews the support, adjusts it, etc.

Take care!
Wojciech

kris barnett
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:59 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by kris barnett » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:06 am

Thanks for chiming in Lagartija! It sounds like your input was helpful for Wojcieh.

Also, I just saw this on youtube. It is Per-Olov Kindgren using the Barnett support. We don't have anything on the website yet, but we will soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vESOJbDWVg

User avatar
Christopher Freitag
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Christopher Freitag » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:18 pm

I use the support on a traditionally-braced spruce top guitar with Brazilian RW B&S. I've had the chance to play for a friend who is also an excellent luthier and has a good ear, and to listen to him play my guitar as well. Neither of us can hear any difference in sound since I've added the support. Anecdotal rather than scientific, but for what it's worth...

I can't speak to the adjustment issue except to note that I spent several days with the support before actually using the tape to lock the magnets into place (and even that is not permanent); it's very easy to shift the thing around unless you bump into a side bar or brace. I found that a number of different angles are possible.

Finally, and completely subjectively, I find that this support frees me up in a way that the Ergoplay did not. It's a combination of the very solid feel of the support on the guitar and the smaller leg pad...I just find it easier to move and the guitar feels more like an extension of me, just as it did when I was playing with a footstool.
Chris Freitag
cjfguitar

2013 German Vasquez Rubio Concert Special "Bernardi"; German spruce/Brazilian rosewood
2014 Garrett (Gary) Lee spruce/cedar double top; Brazilian rosewood

roscoetuff
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:07 am
Location: "The Land of Pleasant Living"

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by roscoetuff » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:37 pm

Bought, installed, and enjoyed! Stable!!! No suction cups!!! And the exact same attachment point.... Not some "approx" but The Same Place! Removes a variable!!! Wonderful! And for me, this is the first that doesn't slide down my leg either. Worth every penny! Get one!
Cheers,
Skip (Roscoetuff)

Wojduch

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Wojduch » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:07 am

roscoetuff wrote:Bought, installed, and enjoyed!
Good for you :) When you have a minute or two, could tell us a bit more? For example: what kind of guitar you installed the thingy in, did you have any problems setting up the support (such as putting your hand inside through the sound hole, which is my personal worry), etc. I AM interested.
roscoetuff wrote:Get one!
Yeah, I'm still waiting for mine :?

roscoetuff
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:07 am
Location: "The Land of Pleasant Living"

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by roscoetuff » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:21 am

Wojduch: I've installed the Barnett support on my very beautiful, full sounding Duane Waterman (2002) guitar. Tried to upload photos... but it backfired. It's a guitar with the soundhole moved to the upper bout to maximize the soundboard space in a small concert guitar (560mm). Fortunately, Duane left an access door on the bottom of the instrument that unscrews... basically to mount electronics, but I used it to mount the magnets. FWIW, I checked in with Duane before opening the door and attempting this, and he thought it looked like a good idea... so for those worried about guitar sides... it can't hurt to check in with your luthier!

Once inside, I cleaned the sides with a damp (not wet) cloth so that dust wouldn't affect the "stick". I hold the guitar at a fairly high angle, mounting the support mostly about even with the bridge. I experimented a bit to try to pick a location that would afford more than one adjustment to the support... and this could be more important for some than others. Using the access door meant that I was able to actually play the guitar trying out different locations... which was helpful. Once you find your location, you put the pink tape on the outside to denote the location of the magnets... and I used some sticky "Post It" notes to place along side the magnets on the inside. I'd recommend attaching one... and then retesting for the 2nd magnet location... in the old "measure twice, cut once" carpenter's rule. I'd allowed a full morning, but found I was "done" in 30 minutes. Sweet!

FWIW, I also kept the sticky plastic cup protectors in place from when I used a Gitano and Tenuto... because I didn't want to mar the finish. Yes, I know it has cork feet to cushion the attachment points... but these are fairly powerful magnets and I didn't want to have to be perfect... every time. Call me conservative there... but until I get more comfortable... I'm sticking with 'em.

Don't be intimidated. Give it a try. As the man says, he'll refund your money if you don't like it.
Cheers,
Skip (Roscoetuff)

Wojduch

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Wojduch » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:57 pm

Thanks a lot Skip (Roscoetuff)! It's all very interesting and indeed useful. I've just received my support and I'm planning to set it up today. I will certainly follow your advice though I don't think I will beat your record of 30 minutes - no way!
roscoetuff wrote:Call me conservative there...
Hey, it seems we're in the very same team!

Once I've fiddled with the thing a bit, I'll share my first impressions.

Good day to everybody!
Wojciech

Wojduch

Re: New Kris Barnett Guitar Support

Post by Wojduch » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:28 am

OK, I managed to install and tame the new magnetic support and I'd like to share a few thoughts.

Firstly, installation of the magnets wasn't at all easy. I guess the problems I had are rather individual phenomena than universal ones. My hand is too big to put it through the sound whole and I had to ask for help. Additionally, since my guitar's sides are narrower at the upper part (the one closer to the fingerboard) there is less space for the hand to get in deep enough in order to position the magnets. But I managed.

Secondly, the support is really adjustable virtually to any position you can think of (well, OK, any I can think of). Thanks to that, whether the magnets are 2-3 cm more to the left or right, it doesn't matter that much. You will be able to set the thing the way most comfortable to you. This is very helpful.

Thirdly: there is one aspect that could - in my humble opinion - be improved. Namely, the width of the leg support. I understand the logic (and logistics) behind the width used but if I had a choice between the more portable version with the current leg support and a more, say, "deluxe" one with a wider support, I'd definitely go for the latter.

Lastly - I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it so far - the Kris Barnett magnetic guitar support is esthetically pleasing. It looks great, it feels nice, so when you take it to your hands you know right away you're holding a high-end, top-quality product. When attached to my guitar, it looks as if it were originally made especially for my instrument. The two fit together so well.

Aha, one more, important thing: the magnets do hold well despite the thickness of my guitar's sides. Owners of The Queen of Guitars by Rafal Turkowiak may safely use the support. It works with no problem.

@Kris
Mr. Barnett, thank you. Your inventive mind, skillful hands and top-notch work make my moments with the guitar even more enjoyable. Life can be so good! :bravo:

Best,
Wojciech

Return to “Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists”