Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

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tateharmann
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Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 am

So, I was playing around with my recorder ( Tascam DR-40 ) when I found out that they had been releasing new firmware for it all along and I never updated! So I updated to the newest and learned how to set the low cut filter ( to remove the 'boomy' frequencies ). I did a few little test recordings and this was one of them.
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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:21 am

It obviously needs more work (it sounds like you are struggling to get to the notes sometimes), but your tone is attractive and your ideas are musical. You just need to keep working and listening to yourself.
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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:56 pm

Thanks for the comment Yisrael!

There's no doubt that I still haven't mastered this little piece :/

However, I didn't feel like I was struggling to get to the notes in time - maybe my choice of rubato was too relaxed? Or maybe I shouldn't roll the dyads so much.. ?

The only piece of the recording I didn't like was in the second half where there's a dramatic dyad with a G bass note on fret 3 of string 6 and an A note on fret 5 of string 1. I didn't hold the G long enough and the A was played very weak.

Anyways, let me know what you think - I want to improve this little one!
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:00 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:21 am
It obviously needs more work (it sounds like you are struggling to get to the notes sometimes), ..
Is this how you were thinking? Much less rubato - basically played straight - I like playing it this way too, but I also like some rubato (for dramatic effect) between the chord shape changes. On listening to my first recording, however, I was perhaps too liberal with the rubato and ended up killing the tempo?
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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:05 pm

- yes, I think that the tempo is better now - and it is, perhaps, time to "play" with dynamics. Your tone, Tate, is beautiful, and I think that soon this piece will be real little gem in your "collection" :)

I hope it is OK that I entered this thread; I did it, as this very piece belongs to my favourites and I am just working on playing it not very fast but as smooth as I would like it to be.
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:58 am

Very nice playing on this Tarrega Etude! I really liked the warmth of it! Thank you.

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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:08 am

Thanks folks! Jacek - of course you can join in, your comments are always helpful ;) To be honest this is one of those "easy" pieces that I never quite mastered. This started more as a recording test but now I'm encouraged to finally make it sound good.

I love this version played without nails on a 19th cen guitar:

Youtube


Very nice phrasing and some wonderful tone (he's a lutenist, primarily) - worthy of imitation!
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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:00 pm

tateharmann wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:00 pm
Is this how you were thinking? Much less rubato - basically played straight - I like playing it this way too, but I also like some rubato (for dramatic effect) between the chord shape changes. On listening to my first recording, however, I was perhaps too liberal with the rubato and ended up killing the tempo?
  1. Yes, retardando on first recording killed the tempo. It was impossible to tell what the meter was.
  2. Second one is much better. I do not have any knowledge about how to read Tarrega. Apparently, tempos were much looser in Tarrega's time than in Sor's. But you need to keep the basic meter of the piece, that is, the clear feel of the 3/4 rhythm.
  3. Tone is very nice. I would work with a metronome and try to make the melody completely legato; that is, one continuous singing melody with breaks only at the end of the 8-bar phrases. That might be difficult in moving from bar 3 to bar 4.
I only sight-read the piece now in order to respond to your question. Do not take this as anything more serious than an opinion of a fellow guitarist. It is a beautiful piece well worth perfecting and adding to your repertoire. Tarrega has a way of creating beautiful music from a few notes.
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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:25 am

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:00 pm
Do not take this as anything more serious than an opinion of a fellow guitarist. It is a beautiful piece well worth perfecting and adding to your repertoire. Tarrega has a way of creating beautiful music from a few notes.
I agree there - and I do really value your opinion, it's helpful to get some good feedback so thanks for that! I jump at any chance to improve :)

I did something fun tonight, after practicing the piece straight many times (and the melody by itself), I added my musical ideas back in. I also recorded it 3 times in a row moving my RH position back towards the bridge each time. You can really hear the difference in the tone color. The last one was played quite close to bridge where the attack is very fast and the sound is punchier (it sounds similar to nail playing IMHO). I think the middle take is my favorite, though.
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PeteJ
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by PeteJ » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:47 pm

I like the tone and mostly the playing but to me the rubato is not quite working. It sounds studied or even a little lazy as opposed to expressive. I wonder if this is because the rubato is not following the melody as it might. The phrases need more energy and direction to me but you could take more time at the ends of phrases. Having the phrases slow down in the middle disturbs the movement of the melody and robs it of drive and is not engaging. I'd suggest singing it in the bath a lot like a opera singer might with no technical issues to worry about and hearing how this differs from your playing. Or just play the melody on its own until it sounds like a singer singing.

Over-analysing here but I find these things interesting. You've reminded me what a lovely little piece it is and that I should dig it out for a play, so thanks. . .

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:45 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:00 pm
... Tarrega has a way of creating beautiful music from a few notes.
In fact, Yisrael, although commonly attributed to Tárrega, there are doubts that this Study in E Minor was indeed created by him. It does not come in any recent or ancient edition of Tárrega's work, but it does appear as Exercise Nº 17 in the Método Completo para Violão from the Brasilian author Oswaldo Soares (I have a pdf copy, if you are interested), himself a student of Josefina Robledo, who was a disciple of Francisco Tárrega. For more information about this subject, see please this the of Mark Clifton-Gaultier below.
Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:39 am
Jorge Oliveira wrote:Any comments?
Many of Tárrega's works have come down to us through his students - some are mistakenly attributed to him such as the "Fantasia on la Traviata" which was in fact composed by Arcas - there are several other instances.

This particular "study" was transmitted through the Brazilian guitarist Oswaldo Soares who nevertheless does not actually attribute it to Tárrega himself. Soares was a student of Josefina Robledo and she a student of Tárrega - thus, even if there is a supposed connection, we receive it at third hand.

The work appears in Soares' book in which he attempts to establish a methodology based on Tárrega's technique - this of course comes to him second hand through the aforementioned Ms. Robledo. Here Soares usually mentions the author of each piece or étude by name - e.g. Sor, Carulli and indeed Tárrega - the study in question has no such designation suggesting to me that it may actually have been written by Soares. I have tried for several years to find a source which stems directly from Tárrega ... without success.

I first came across the piece in a collection of studies edited by Isaias Savio together with the "Study in C" (also found in Soares' book and similarly not attributed to any author). Savio is of course also Brazilian - he makes no mention of why he thinks the studies are by Tárrega (why should he?) but it seems likely that he gleaned both from the work of Soares.

For myself - I see and hear nothing which makes me sure that either of these two studies (Em and C) are indeed by Tárrega. As far as I have been able to find out there are no manuscript versions of either of them.

To answer your question - the version in the tablature file is not original having been simplified to avoid the second position barré.
Edited to include the link to the post of Mark Clifton-Gaultier above...
Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:44 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:47 pm
I like the tone and mostly the playing but to me the rubato is not quite working. It sounds studied or even a little lazy as opposed to expressive. I wonder if this is because the rubato is not following the melody as it might. The phrases need more energy and direction to me but you could take more time at the ends of phrases. Having the phrases slow down in the middle disturbs the movement of the melody and robs it of drive and is not engaging. I'd suggest singing it in the bath a lot like a opera singer might with no technical issues to worry about and hearing how this differs from your playing. Or just play the melody on its own until it sounds like a singer singing.

Over-analysing here but I find these things interesting. You've reminded me what a lovely little piece it is and that I should dig it out for a play, so thanks. . .
No problem thanks for the feedback! I'll take this into account - this is one of the pieces I've quite never been able to master despite it's simplicity. Do you have a link to a version that you like?
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:46 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:45 pm
In fact, Yisrael, although commonly attributed to Tárrega, there are doubts that this Study in E Minor was indeed created by him. It does not come in any recent or ancient edition of Tárrega's work, but it does appear as Exercise Nº 17 in the Método Completo para Violão from the Brasilian author Oswaldo Soares (I have a pdf copy, if you are interested), himself a student of Josefina Robledo, who was a disciple of Francisco Tárrega. For more information about this subject, see please this the post of Mark Clifton-Gaultier below.
I'd be very interested in the PDF if you would be willing to send it my way :)
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by PeteJ » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:00 pm

Here's a nice one.

https://youtu.be/sJGBJUpdZMw

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tateharmann
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Etude in Em - Gut and Silk Strings no Nails

Post by tateharmann » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:43 pm

Great - I've bookmarked that one to study it. Sounds very nice ;)
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

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