Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

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Andrei Puhach
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Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Andrei Puhach » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi friends,
It has been my dream to learn this beautiful piece. It is difficult, my technique is not that good yet to play it properly (for example, fast chromatic passages), but I still want to share my playing.
In another couple of years I plan to become much better :)
Your comments and improvement suggestions are very welcome. Thanks for watching!

Youtube

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lagartija
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by lagartija » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:58 pm

:applauso: Thank you for sharing this with us, Andrei. :-) It is a compelling piece, isn't it? It is one of my favorites, too. Your tone is very nice, even while listening on my cheap computer speakers. :lol:
It is a really good idea to record yourself now...and then, maybe in six months record again. You may be surprised at how much progress you've made. How long have you been working on the piece?

If you want suggestions, I offer the following. I listened through twice, and I guess the thing that most stood out were the slowing down and speeding up. Although this is a piece from the Romantic era and one can take some liberties with timing, there were times the slowing or speeding didn't seem to go with the phrasing. Perhaps this is where you are finding it technically difficult. There are many ways to solve a technical problem and this is where a teacher is so useful. If you are studying on your own, then sometimes it is difficult to see exactly what you might do to fix the problem other than countless repetitions (which is not necessarily an approach that will get you to your goal). Sometimes a different fingering works, moving a shift to a different place, or a particular exercise. If there is a particular thing you have a problem with, you could put that in a specific question and post it in the technique section. One of the teachers on the forum might have a good idea or exercise that will work for you.

My teacher has taught me to mark the phrases and within the phrases, the "arrival" points (climax in the phrase, cadence, etc.) right on the score. Then, when working phrase by phrase, I must decide when the music should be moving forward and when it should pause for a breath. During this time, if there is an obvious climax in the phrase, one looks to see what dynamic the composer has marked. If none is marked, you might feel free to decide on how you want the phrase to sound dynamically. Try it out. See if it sounds appropriate.

He also has me listen to various versions of a piece. I should note how their phrasing differs (from each other and mine) and where they are moving the music forward and when they are holding back. Which version sounds more like the one in my head? Do I like one version better than another? Why? What are they doing in the version that I like that I am not doing as I play it?

Then, when I do decide on a dynamic....how am I getting there? All at once? When does the change start and how does it end? Does it sound like too abrupt a change? Does it go with what I am doing in the next phrase? (To find that answer, I have to look at what I am doing with the piece as a whole.)

Well...you can see there are a lot of fronts to work on. :-D But it is all fun and a journey of discovery. Learning these skills I think is easiest on a piece you REALLY love...then you don't mind the hard work and practicing it a lot.
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Classical Guitar forever!

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Andrei Puhach » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:07 pm

lagartija wrote::applauso: Thank you for sharing this with us, Andrei. :-) It is a compelling piece, isn't it? It is one of my favorites, too. Your tone is very nice, even while listening on my cheap computer speakers. :lol:
It is a really good idea to record yourself now...and then, maybe in six months record again. You may be surprised at how much progress you've made. How long have you been working on the piece?
...
Thank you a ton, lagartija, I did not expect such quick and detailed response! Really appreciate it!
As of phrasing, I watched many videos and tried to replicate some phrasing (well, not very successfully though). So, I did not do that thorough work with the score... Probably slowing down and speeding up too much without proper technique might sound really bad...
My first goal was to overcome difficult parts and stop making mistakes :)
And yes, dynamics, it is not really there yet...

Thank you again for your time, for listening so carefully and giving advice!

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by petermc61 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:55 pm

Firstly, I think you underestimate your performance. I very much enjoyed it.

Picking up on lagartija's comments, in a few spots it seems as if the ornaments are affecting the rhythm. Whenever I have interesting rhythms with ornamentation or complex ornamentation I tend to play the piece through without any ornaments so that I get the timing of the underlying melody right and embedded in my brain - then I add back the ornaments and make sure I don't change the basic melody/timing. Seems to wok for me (mostly, but not always!!)

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by lagartija » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:03 pm

One of the reasons I asked how long you have been working on the piece is because some of the things I suggest are hard to do if you aren't far enough along to play the piece fluently at a constant tempo. If that is the case, practice with a metronome first, slow enough to play at some tempo in time. Then when you get to a speed where it holds together as music, you will probably be able to play fluently enough to work on the phrasing and dynamics.
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:13 pm

So very nice playing on this beautiful piece! You have played it very well! Thank you for posting it.

Andrei Puhach
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Andrei Puhach » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:16 pm

lagartija wrote:One of the reasons I asked how long you have been working on the piece is because some of the things I suggest are hard to do if you aren't far enough along to play the piece fluently at a constant tempo. If that is the case, practice with a metronome first, slow enough to play at some tempo in time. Then when you get to a speed where it holds together as music, you will probably be able to play fluently enough to work on the phrasing and dynamics.
Sorry, I did not answer this question. I guess I have been working on this piece for 2 years. At the same time I have been developing necessary technique (pull offs, finger independence with barre), so my skills were not good enough at the time I started it (but could not resist). Mostly all work was about polishing difficult fragments.
So, it is currently hard for me to play the piece fluently at a constant tempo (with no mistakes).
I feel like Capricho Arabe is going sound terrible with a metronome though (but I totally understand the value of this kind of practice) :)

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Andrei Puhach » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:21 pm

petermc61 wrote:Firstly, I think you underestimate your performance. I very much enjoyed it.

Picking up on lagartija's comments, in a few spots it seems as if the ornaments are affecting the rhythm. Whenever I have interesting rhythms with ornamentation or complex ornamentation I tend to play the piece through without any ornaments so that I get the timing of the underlying melody right and embedded in my brain - then I add back the ornaments and make sure I don't change the basic melody/timing. Seems to wok for me (mostly, but not always!!)
That makes perfect sense. Especially, when there is no teacher and you think you (I mean myself) can already play it OK with the right rhythm and timing. Of course, it is hard to resist adding this beautiful ornamentation which makes practice so fun.
Noted: first get fundamentals right (like rhythm, timing) then add more stuff (ornamentation).

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by lagartija » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:16 am

Another pitfall of working on a piece you love is that you want to hear the entire thing, so you try to play the entire piece all the time. My teachers always told me I was trying to take too big a bite of the piece when I was first working it up. It took another two years before I actually followed their advice in that! :lol:

I'm not recommending that you play the entire piece to the metronome. Start at a reasonable tempo, one you can manage and play the first measure while counting out loud. No problem? Ok, now do the same with measure two. Now play the first two measures together in time. If you can do that, then take the next two measures and do the same. Now play the first four measures together, in time while counting out loud with the metronome. Now follow this same process with the next four measures (start with the first two bars, then the next two, then four together--do the same with the next group). If you are working on a piece with an eight bar phrase, by the time you have finished that second batch of four measures, you will be able to play the first phrase in time while counting with the metronome.
Do this with the next phrase.
In this way, you are making all phrases fluid and in time at the same tempo. My teacher would always tell me to stop at the end of a section. (I always wanted to push ahead, but he advised not doing that until later.) Before going on to the next section, I would work the tempo up on that first section until I reached my target tempo. Then it was ok to do the same thing with the next section. Once you have done this, the count you have been saying out loud will be lodged in your head, associated with the music and the phrase. Now when you wish to take time, you may slow the count, but you are not changing the rhythmic accuracy of the notes.
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Lawler » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:25 am

I enjoyed that, Andrei.

Andrei Puhach
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - Video

Post by Andrei Puhach » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:42 am

lagartija wrote:Another pitfall of working on a piece you love is that you want to hear the entire thing, so you try to play the entire piece all the time. My teachers always told me I was trying to take too big a bite of the piece when I was first working it up. It took another two years before I actually followed their advice in that! :lol:
Haha, that's so true! I'm very aware of this thing and know how counterproductive it is.

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