Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Audio and video recordings of the works of Francisco Tárrega.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:43 pm

Paul Janssen wrote:
optichero wrote::bravo:
Lots to learn from your video. :merci:
Hi Kevin,
I've watched your performance of this piece (viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84477&p=911403#p911403). It's excellent (and your French is impressive too!!!). I would say there's not that much you need to learn when it comes to playing this piece.
Regards,
Paul
Paul is quite right, you have very little to learn when it comes to this piece. In case you are interested I would make the following very small points;
- check your 6th string is in tune when you are tuned to D (its a tiny bit sharp)
- enjoy your bass range a bit more, especially in the bass motif of course
- do the first slide, don't be embarrassed about seeming sentimental
- the second crotchet/quarter note of the main theme has an accent on it. So do that, I'd say Tarrega had the best ideas when it comes to his own piece. But you can also try enhancing the accent by shortening the beat before the accent (the first note of the theme)
- consider experimenting with the exact sonority of the harmonics at the beginning (and end) rather than just making it random, particular parts of the string produce quite different, some more interesting than others
- consider more variety in the timing of the ornaments, some should be quick but others can be more interesting played as triplets
- we can all do more to clarify the difference between the tune and the accompaniment, especially in the F major section when the chords are above the theme on string 3.
But among all the things I think you got exactly right;
- you control the basses, not letting the D ring under the others
- you control your speed in the fast semiquaver/16th passages, so one can still hear the pulse, rather than losing it in a messy flurry
- you space the rhythm properly at the beginning - most people don't seem to notice the duration of the first chord!

i have some fond memories of playing in French churches - but I was more than twice your age at the time! :bravo:
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

leyenda

Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by leyenda » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:06 pm

good performance - this is such a beautiful piece. Although I think you need to have more balance between the melodyand accompaniment? What i think should be boom-ching boom-ching is now boom-CHINK boom-CHINK ...it just seems to overshadow the melody?

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:02 pm

leyenda wrote:good performance - this is such a beautiful piece. Although I think you need to have more balance between the melodyand accompaniment? What i think should be boom-ching boom-ching is now boom-CHINK boom-CHINK ...it just seems to overshadow the melody?
Well that would be the opposite of the intention, it may be that the care to shorten the off-beat quaver/quarter notes makes them more prominent that they should be?
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

leyenda

Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by leyenda » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:19 pm

it was a very professional performce and i thought the overall shape and form and tempo throughout the piece was excellent....but personally i thnk the rests are were not intended to be observed by the performer - it just sounds wrong? ?
itrs just my opinion..
its a very difficult piece - well done!

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lagartija
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by lagartija » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:05 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
leyenda wrote:good performance - this is such a beautiful piece. Although I think you need to have more balance between the melodyand accompaniment? What i think should be boom-ching boom-ching is now boom-CHINK boom-CHINK ...it just seems to overshadow the melody?
Well that would be the opposite of the intention, it may be that the care to shorten the off-beat quaver/quarter notes makes them more prominent that they should be?
Yes, perhaps that is why they stood out so much to me as well. :? What I heard was less of the melody line and more of the accompaniment. But I am a fairly naive listener, so take that into consideration. There were many beautiful aspects of your interpretation and it seems exceedingly picky of me to focus on that one thing.....
I really like the piece and I'm happy to hear all interpretations. :D
When the sun shines, bask.
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Classical Guitar forever!

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petermc61
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by petermc61 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:37 pm

leyenda wrote: .....personally i thnk the rests are were not intended to be observed by the performer - it just sounds wrong? ? itrs just my opinion..
Tarrega went to a lot of effort to write all those rests in and he didn't actually mean for them to be observed? I'd be surprised.

Peter

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lagartija
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by lagartija » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:48 pm

I have a facsimile of a hand written manuscript of the piece, but even that is thought to be by the hand of one of his students. I would think that we can only guess if it was he who wrote the rests.....and not a later editorial addition.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

leyenda

Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by leyenda » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:12 pm

i think so,

try to write the notes out sustained...it would look a mess, difficult to read and probably difficult to publish.
I suggest you listen to my performance, i not saying its better its not, its different. some of the rests are observbed due to shifts and changes in the left hand but on the whole the accompaniment is played piano alllowing, hopefully, the listener to focus on the melody.
Stephen gives a professional, polished performance - im not here to offend, in fact i havent written any posts offering advice.

its a beautiful piece,

Leyenda, :desole:

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petermc61
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by petermc61 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:42 pm

Leyenda

Just to be clear, I don't think anybody took your comments the wrong way. I thought it was an interesting perspective and raised a good point for discussion. So thanks!

I just happen to like Stephen's version very much. I also like the weight of the bass line under the melody and feel it adds to the piece rather than taking away from it. At the slightly slower pace Stephen plays this piece at it gives it a more stately flow and sense of structure.

I will have a listen to your piece though when I get in tonight.

Regards
Peter

P.S. I do think the recording, may be because of the room, makes the bottom E a bit tubby and is probably not how the guitars would sound live. Maybe it is that which accentuates the problem for you?

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lucy
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by lucy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:51 pm

leyenda wrote: ....but personally i thnk the rests are were not intended to be observed by the performer - it just sounds wrong? ?
itrs just my opinion..
To my ears, I have to agree with leyenda on this one. However, I thought I'd look into it further.

I've a copy of Daniel Fortea's 1932 recording. The CD notes say that Fortea was one of Tarrega's favourite students.

Interestingly, in the main theme, he doesn't play a rest after the first A/F natural chord, but does after the second one!

My theory is that the first rest is missing to help create a sense of legato between the two As, but the second one is present to give the remainder of the bar a little "kick" or lift.

Just my thoughts!
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are”. Theodore Roosevelt

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:57 am

Thanks to all for this discussion and apologies for tardy response from me.

Hearing something a done a different way will often sound 'wrong', even if its objectively correct (eg when we learn a possible but wrong note in a piece and eventually try to correct after a long time). In playing those rests more or less as written I'm not saying that its how Tarrega meant it, and am always aware of the issues 'so why write it like that then?' vs 'because its actually easier to read' and 'its just a habit composers have' and 'Tarrega played piano so it might be habit from what a pianist would write.'

We guitarists have very many habits of mind and hands, who is to say a particular performance practice or tradition relates to one or both (really, the hand habits of course start in the mind). Historically, my impression is that few guitarists paid as much attention to the durations of notes as we perhaps feel impelled to today, certainly, the few really old recordings I have heard suggest as much, and it would be so interesting to hear the generation of Tarrega and before. For instance, when you look at some of the Sor studies which feature short durations, some of them, to do exactly what it says, are mightily fussy, but then, if you don't do exactly what is says, why both to make any of the rests - where does one draw the line? Which fussy detail is required and which would be 'no Monsieur I don't really mean *that* one...'
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

cad
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by cad » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:03 pm

¡Bravo Stephen!
Exquisita interpretación, tiene mucho de morisco, Impecable técnica.
Gracias por compartir.-

Bravo Stephen !
Exquisite interpretation has much Moorish (Arabic) Impeccable technique.
Thank you for sharing.
Claudio A. de Andrea.

Aerostoon

Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by Aerostoon » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:33 am

I thought it sounded great. Beautiful tone from the guitar was captured by good recording equipment.

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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by edcat7 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:37 am

Stephen,

I also loved your interpretation and tone of the Ambridge Torres. I noticed you have a series 40 Ambridge as well. Is there a reason you played this piece on the Torres rather than your 40? What is the difference? Does the smaller body size make it easier to play?

Ed
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Tárrega, Francisco - Capricho Arabe - D08 Video

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:04 am

edcat7 wrote:Stephen,

I also loved your interpretation and tone of the Ambridge Torres. I noticed you have a series 40 Ambridge as well. Is there a reason you played this piece on the Torres rather than your 40? What is the difference? Does the smaller body size make it easier to play?

Ed
Thanks! The Torres copy was loaned to me for a week and I thought the Capricho - and a couple of other videos if you visit my channel - were good to record on it. The guitar had been ordered by a dealer in the US and got caught up in the timber-tracing redtape business. It did eventually go over and I believe has found a home somewhere.

I did feel very easy to play, and to vibrato, though the flip side of that is you have to be more careful with the intonation of various chords. That ease of play I would say is more to do with the design of the soundboard than the body size.

The Hauser copy videos were also on a borrowed guitar. Simon lives less than a couple of hours drive from here so its easy for him to drop them by.
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

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