Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Nail care, nail problems, and the use of nails in playing the classical guitar.
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mverive
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby mverive » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:24 pm

Let me preface this comment with the fact that I am a physician and former chemist in the flavor and fragrance industry...

There are many products that are called onymyrrh(e), with a wide variety of ingredients. The name Onymyrrh comes from "ony" which refers to nails, and "myrrh" which is actually a tree resin, related to frankincense, and is one of the three gifts mentioned in the Bible that the wise men brought with them to give to Jesus (gold, frankincense and myrrh). Myrrh contains many terpenes, sesquiterpenes, and other aromatic compounds, and is fairly bitter (the name myrrh is a variant of the Arabic word "murr" which means bitter). Terpenes and related compounds have double bonds that are readily oxidized, making them antioxidants. Many of these compounds have additional oxygen containing subunits that allow them to covalently bond to proteins such as the keratin in hair and nails, which explains their use in hair and nail products.

Myrrh probably protects nails (and hair) by bonding to protein and partly by antioxidant properties, but the bitterness of myrrh also helps prevent damage from biting, which many of us do by habit. Biting not only causes physical trauma to nails at the biting site, but causes cleavage along the body of the nail, which is lamellar (layers). For those of us with longitudinal ridges, biting also leads to lengthwise splitting of the nail.

Many onymyrrh products also contain various lacquers, enamels, and other artificial nail strengthening/bonding agents, so you have to read the label carefully so that you know what you're getting.

Hoof and nail products often contain heavy oils, lanolin, simethicone, and other substances that can keep nails from drying out, which causes nails to become brittle and causes the keratin layers to separate. Since wet nails are prone to fungal infection, it helps that many natural oils contain terpenes, sesquiterpenes and related chemicals, which inhibit growth of fungi, bacteria, and viruses. One of the main ingredients in Listerine is thymol, a terpene.

One additional ingredient that I see in various hoof/nail products (and some lip balms) is allantoin, a substance found in comfrey, urine, and other biologic sources. Allantoin is produced by oxidation of uric acid, and bonds fairly tightly to skin and nails, and has some anti-ulcer effect. It has been shown to be helpful in wound healing, although there is little research into its use in treating or preventing nail disease.

So, in summary, much of what is sold as onymyrrh(e) contains no myrrh whatsoever, but other compounds designed to strenghten nails and protect them from breakage. Since the composition of commercial onymyrrh(e) products is so variable, it is no wonder that response to these products is variable as well.

Hope that this information is useful.
"(P)Lay on, MacDuff, And damn'd be him that first cries, 'Hold, enough!'"

laukejas
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Location: Lithuania

Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby laukejas » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:08 pm

mverive wrote:Let me preface this comment with the fact that I am a physician and former chemist in the flavor and fragrance industry...

There are many products that are called onymyrrh(e), with a wide variety of ingredients. The name Onymyrrh comes from "ony" which refers to nails, and "myrrh" which is actually a tree resin, related to frankincense, and is one of the three gifts mentioned in the Bible that the wise men brought with them to give to Jesus (gold, frankincense and myrrh). Myrrh contains many terpenes, sesquiterpenes, and other aromatic compounds, and is fairly bitter (the name myrrh is a variant of the Arabic word "murr" which means bitter). Terpenes and related compounds have double bonds that are readily oxidized, making them antioxidants. Many of these compounds have additional oxygen containing subunits that allow them to covalently bond to proteins such as the keratin in hair and nails, which explains their use in hair and nail products.

Myrrh probably protects nails (and hair) by bonding to protein and partly by antioxidant properties, but the bitterness of myrrh also helps prevent damage from biting, which many of us do by habit. Biting not only causes physical trauma to nails at the biting site, but causes cleavage along the body of the nail, which is lamellar (layers). For those of us with longitudinal ridges, biting also leads to lengthwise splitting of the nail.

Many onymyrrh products also contain various lacquers, enamels, and other artificial nail strengthening/bonding agents, so you have to read the label carefully so that you know what you're getting.

Hoof and nail products often contain heavy oils, lanolin, simethicone, and other substances that can keep nails from drying out, which causes nails to become brittle and causes the keratin layers to separate. Since wet nails are prone to fungal infection, it helps that many natural oils contain terpenes, sesquiterpenes and related chemicals, which inhibit growth of fungi, bacteria, and viruses. One of the main ingredients in Listerine is thymol, a terpene.

One additional ingredient that I see in various hoof/nail products (and some lip balms) is allantoin, a substance found in comfrey, urine, and other biologic sources. Allantoin is produced by oxidation of uric acid, and bonds fairly tightly to skin and nails, and has some anti-ulcer effect. It has been shown to be helpful in wound healing, although there is little research into its use in treating or preventing nail disease.

So, in summary, much of what is sold as onymyrrh(e) contains no myrrh whatsoever, but other compounds designed to strenghten nails and protect them from breakage. Since the composition of commercial onymyrrh(e) products is so variable, it is no wonder that response to these products is variable as well.

Hope that this information is useful.


Thank you very much for such detailed information. However, it seems that neither product has myrrh in it's ingredients.

For Hard As Hoof, it says:

Purified Water, Aloe Vera Concentrate, Jojoba Oil, Aloe Vera Oil, Glycerin, Glyceryl Stearate, Bees Wax, Hydrolyzed Protein, Calcium Pantothenate, Allantoin, Liposomes, Vitamins A, C, D, & E, DI-Panthenol, Natural Fragrance, Methyl Paraben, Probyl Paraben

For Mane 'n Tail Hoofmaker, it says:

Water/Aqua/Eau, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine Lactate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Steareth-20, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance (Parfum), Methylparaben, Lanolin, PEG-150 Stearate, Propylparaben, Hydrolyzed Collagen Protein, PEG-25 Castor Oil, Sodium Chloride, Allantoin, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Yellow #5 (CI 19140), Yellow #6 (CI 15985), Benzyl Benzoate, Benzyl Salicylate, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Limonene, Linalool, Hydroxyisohexyl-3-Cyxlohexene Carboxaldehyde.

So... I guess these are no good? How the heck do I find a product that contains myrrh?

kdwiklund
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby kdwiklund » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Personally, I would stay away from nail polishes so I would go for either of the hoof creams. I'm sure they are similar. Get what is cheaper!
David Pace 2017 - cedar double-top
David Pace 2014 - spruce
Jose Oribe 1973 - spruce

laukejas
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby laukejas » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:55 pm

kdwiklund wrote:Personally, I would stay away from nail polishes so I would go for either of the hoof creams. I'm sure they are similar. Get what is cheaper!


Yeah, well, spending lots on shipping for a cheap product that won't work (and I'll notice that only months later) doesn't sound like a good product... I want to be sure about this. Others have reported that hoof creams worked for them, but now I'm surprised to read that there's no myrrh in these products. I mean, Onymyrrhe definitely had myrrh.

kdwiklund
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby kdwiklund » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:21 pm

I never claimed that Hard as Hoof had myrrh in it, only that it has worked for me.
David Pace 2017 - cedar double-top
David Pace 2014 - spruce
Jose Oribe 1973 - spruce

laukejas
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Location: Lithuania

Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby laukejas » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:22 pm

kdwiklund wrote:I never claimed that Hard as Hoof had myrrh in it, only that it has worked for me.


Yeah, I know, just trying to figure it all out...

robert e
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby robert e » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 pm

If you're so convinced of myrrh's effectiveness, why not add a drop or two of myrrh oil to Goni's olive oil soak?

laukejas
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby laukejas » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:48 pm

robert e wrote:If you're so convinced of myrrh's effectiveness, why not add a drop or two of myrrh oil to Goni's olive oil soak?


Not quite sure what you meant by that. Myrrh oil is not available in my country, I have to order it overseas anyway.

Robin
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby Robin » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 pm

I used the Onymyrrhe several years ago. It didn't seem to help significantly and it was messy to use. Since then, I've heard that using more natural oils, such as Vitamin E or Olive oil, and staying away from drying agents are effective alternatives. I carry Sallie Hanson's Vitamin E Oil with me wherever I go. I can brush it on throughout the day, it absorbs quickly and is odorless.

Robin
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robert e
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby robert e » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:20 pm

laukejas wrote:
robert e wrote:If you're so convinced of myrrh's effectiveness, why not add a drop or two of myrrh oil to Goni's olive oil soak?


Not quite sure what you meant by that. Myrrh oil is not available in my country, I have to order it overseas anyway.

Maybe you missed my previous comment, where I mention Antigoni Goni soaking her nails in olive oil. Search youtube for "Antigoni Goni nail care". She has many good suggestions from her own experience. Myrrh oil needs a carrier oil, and since many guitarists use olive oil anyway, it seems a logical choice.

I didn't know myrrh oil was so hard to find. It seems plentiful online, and on Amaz*n; perhaps it won't be too costly to have shipped. Are there no suppliers of therapeutic essential oils in your country?

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Frousse
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby Frousse » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:32 pm

I am not sure whether I can post the link here, but, through a search on Amazon, I was able to click on one of the advertised links in the lower part of the page and find a site that sells the product onymyrrhe.

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jpryan
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby jpryan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:26 pm

I used Onymyrrhe for about a year. Before using it I had already been using vegetable oil on my nails (peanut oil, olive oil, grapeseed oil at different times). When I started using oil on my nails it made the kind of difference that I've seen people attribute to Onymyrrhe (they became more flexible and less susceptible to breaking). For me, the Onymyrrhe did nothing more than the other oils had already done. Maybe just try some vegetable oil and see if it works for you like the Onymyrrhe did. I don't think there was any magic ingredient in it; as far as I can tell Onymyrrhe was just oil.
--John

dtoh
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby dtoh » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:25 am

Not sure but I'm guessing Myrrh might fall under fragrance in the labeling.

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mverive
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby mverive » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:13 am

Even if you purchase something labeled "Myrrh oil", there's actually a pretty good chance that it is adulterated or cut with other oils. This is partly due to the fact that "myrrh oil" is derived from myrrh resin, and there are multiple methods that can be used to extract or dissolve the active components in myrrh. Hence, the composition of "myrrh oil" (if you can find it) will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and possibly even batch to batch from any single manufacturer.

From a marketing standpoint, I would expect an oil marketed as "Myrrh oil" would at the very least show "myrrh" as one of its listed ingredients, even if stated as "contains myrrh and other essential oils" or wording to that effect. Any oil that fails to mention myrrh as an ingredient probably doesn't contain it to any significant degree, if at all.

Mike
"(P)Lay on, MacDuff, And damn'd be him that first cries, 'Hold, enough!'"

dtoh
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Re: Where can I buy Onymyrrhe now?

Postby dtoh » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:36 am

Actually not. The way it works is that you extract the resins and the essential oils (two different things) using a solvent like hexane, acetone, EDC. Then you separate the oil from the resin using a distillation process. The essential oil is not derived from the resin...it's a separate thing.

Yes, there are big difference from batch to batch but normally the extractors will blend batches to achieve consistency. That said, synthetically produced compounds are hard to distinguish from naturally derived compounds so there is always a good chance that someone is selling a synthetic oil under a "natural" label.

Finally, essential oils contain very volatile compounds so I'm not sure how good it is for the nails. Mixing with some kind of carrier oil probably makes it better. If there is any benefit from Myrrh (I have no idea), it's much more likely to be from the resin not the oil.


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