Anyone not use nails?

Nail care, nail problems, and the use of nails in playing the classical guitar.
davekear
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by davekear » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:26 pm

tateharmann wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:20 pm
davekear wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:51 pm
All classical guitar teachers teach the use of fingernails when playing the classical guitar.
All classical guitar instruction books instruct on the use of fingernails when playing the classical guitar.
Sorry buddy...wrong again - I'll address the teachers first: Rob MacKillop and David van Ooijen are two wonderful players AND teachers that are happy to teach flesh technique. I'm certain there are others.

Instruction books - Emilio Pujol's guitar school comes to mind (written in the 1930's, no?) - and again, there are others.
Your misquoting me my buddy. It's incomplete. If you read my post again, this is what I said just before that:
"Let me put in a disclaimer here: When I say "all" or "every" I mean at least 999 out of 1000. There always will be exceptions here and there. Just ask the flat earth society." But you left that part out. Not surprising though.
So for all you students who are still confused about this, again, the overwhelming majority of all the great guitarists and teachers of today will tell you that you will not realize the full potential of the classical guitar without using your fingernails. So despite all of the justifications to not do so, learn to use your fingernails. And again, that's not my dogmatic advice, it's the advice of an overwhelming majority of all professional classical guitar teachers and players. Pretty good advice. And again, if you don't want to use nails, that's fine. I've commented a lot on this, so I won't rehash it here. But for whatever reason you do this, just know that most professional teachers and players will tell you that you can never realize the full potential of this great instrument without using nails. Learn to use your nails, it's not that difficult.
Last edited by davekear on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tateharmann
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by tateharmann » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:53 pm

Ah sorry man! I totally missed that part (sheepish grin). :/

Yes you are correct there - and yes, I've learned to use my nails before and played that way for a very long time.

Now - I'm learning to use mis yemas :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson

davekear
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:18 am

tateharmann wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:53 pm
Ah sorry man! I totally missed that part (sheepish grin). :/

Yes you are correct there - and yes, I've learned to use my nails before and played that way for a very long time.

Now - I'm learning to use mis yemas :)
I appreciate that, thank you.

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tateharmann
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by tateharmann » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:20 am

Haha no problem - ugh this thread is getting quite tedious :/

You're a good player and teacher - keep doing what you do.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson

Philosopherguy
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by Philosopherguy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:28 am

davekear wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:20 pm
Philosopherguy wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:47 pm
davekear wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:18 pm


The biggest competition that I'm aware of is the GFA competition (Guitar Foundation of America). http://www.guitarfoundation.org/
I know many of the past winners. All great guitarists. All of them use their fingernails. There may have been a winner that has won without nails, but it's extremely unlikely. Almost all professional guitarists and their students use nails.
I think most people don't like the dogmatic approach that you take in trying to "school" everyone to your point of view. We get your point. Some like nails; some don't. Some like D'Addario strings; some don't. Some people like to play the guitar naked; some don't. We don't all have to be complete copies of each other.


Martin
It's not "my point of view". And it's not dogmatic. It's the point of view of almost every serious player and teacher that plays. So you, like some others, still haven't got the point. But most people get it. that's what's important.
Go on being ignorant and pigheaded. You don't listen and you don't accept anything different from what you believe in your little world. I'm glad that I will likely never cross paths with you.
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ddray
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by ddray » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:39 am

MAK wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:52 pm
I've been reading this thread, and I understand where everyone is coming from. As a refresher, I'm not a performer. My current guitar teacher does not teach me to use nails. He teaches me how to practice to produce a good sound. He has no preference whether or not his students use nails, although I know some students of his who don't play with nails. My teacher does not currently play with nails and it's not because he cannot grow them.

My experiment progressed to filing off my nails, and so far, I'm enjoying it. I'd only grow them back equal to the curve of my fingertips if I decide to do so. I can't believe the time I've spent over the past 8 years trying to keep them at an ideal shape and length. It will take me time to fully develop a consistent sound, but I'm going to keep trying. It's not like I was consistent with nails, either, due to variations in the shapes of i, m,and a nails. I have tried to use a thumbnail and used an artificial one for a while, but it was awkward. My thumb can't bend back enough and I didn't like a long thumb nail. So, essentially, I've played without the thumb nail for the better part of 8 years.

I've also read Emilio Pujol's The Dilemma of Timbre on the Guitar and his biography of Tarrega. I find historical elements of guitar playing very interesting.
I'm pretty much the same way. I'm a learner, no expert by any means. I like the sound of both nails and flesh, and I think ideally it's probably better to use a combination to get the best tone. But I just don't think I'd have to have nails that protrude over my fingertip to achieve that. People are different of course and have different nail texture. Mine are very hard and grow quickly. I grew mine out a little as an experiment too and didn't notice much difference, except for having to file them all the time. No thanks. And I don't ever use the thumbnail.

davekear
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:08 am

Philosopherguy wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:28 am
davekear wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:20 pm



It's not "my point of view". And it's not dogmatic. It's the point of view of almost every serious player and teacher that plays. So you, like some others, still haven't got the point. But most people get it. that's what's important.
Go on being ignorant and pigheaded. You don't listen and you don't accept anything different from what you believe in your little world. I'm glad that I will likely never cross paths with you.
[/quote]

Oh, we're still doin the personal attack thing? OK.
I think you need to learn to comprehend what you're reading. Talk about being ignorant and pigheaded.
No one's threatening you here man... relax. Maybe you could work it out in therapy.
But I wish you the best. And don't forget, grow yourself some nails. :D
Last edited by davekear on Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:27 am, edited 4 times in total.

davekear
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:12 am

tateharmann wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:20 am
Haha no problem - ugh this thread is getting quite tedious :/

You're a good player and teacher - keep doing what you do.
You too man, thanks! Yea, pretty tedious. Gettin real old. Now I know how Copernicus must have felt.

Rasputin
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by Rasputin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:59 am

davekear wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:12 am
Now I know how Copernicus must have felt.
More! Please don't stop.

Francisco
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by Francisco » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:04 pm

Copernicus, yes. Indeed. He is the one who said “in unguibus veritas” (truth lies in the nail). He proposed the theory of ungui-centrism to replace the brutish flesh-centric views of his ignorant predecessors...

But seriously, one wonders where this extraordinary zeal comes from that compels you so obsessively to convince everyone that the nail-less proponents are like lost sheep guided by the dark forces of ignorance. One gets the feeling that your heart sinks in unbearable depression and agitation every time you read that a forum member has gone over (or is thinking of going over) the somber world of nail-less playing. You need to rescue them, or at least warn everyone about how wrong they are.

You know the passage in the Gospels, the parable of the lost sheep:
What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the pasture and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders, comes home, and calls together his friends and neighbors to tell them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my lost sheep!’ In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent.
Yamaha GC42S

davekear
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:55 pm

Francisco wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:04 pm
Copernicus, yes. Indeed. He is the one who said “in unguibus veritas” (truth lies in the nail). He proposed the theory of ungui-centrism to replace the brutish flesh-centric views of his ignorant predecessors...


You know the passage in the Gospels, the parable of the lost sheep:
What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the pasture and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders, comes home, and calls together his friends and neighbors to tell them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my lost sheep!’ In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent.
Hey Francisco, there's a guy who posts on this forum, who also teaches who has a really good site.
Under "Classical guitar technique" sub category "the importance of a good teacher"
He goes by Kmurdick. He has a post there on the first page with a link to his classical guitar lessons You tube page.
He goes over some really good basic fundamentals that are very important to learn early on. Which if not learned,
will really hinder one's progress as a classical guitarist. Here, I'll just put the link to it here. Check it out, good stuff:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=113191&p=1205011#p1205011
Or if you want to go directly to his site, it's here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... D7FA3F7B59

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tateharmann
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by tateharmann » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:42 pm

Just found another forum member playing without nails: Maxim Joan.

Here's playing on a standard guitar: viewtopic.php?f=115&t=109704&p=1166914
And here on a terz guitar: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=112053

Lovely playing..
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson

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musguitar
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by musguitar » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:45 am

twistedblues wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:33 pm
Anyone not grow their nails? And just use mainly the flesh of the fingertips?

Anyone have a list of players who don't or didn't use nails?

Sor?

Hope I posted this in the correct area!
I am a recent convert to the use of nails to play classical and fingerstyle guitar on nylon strings. Joe Pass influenced my solo guitar -- nailess. It makes sense. To get a warmer and rounder tone to play steel string-- without nails makes sense. Ever since I revived playing my nylon string guitars-- nails use has significantly improved the tone of my guitar. It is a matter of angling my plucking hands that is still new to me. I met a classical guitar teacher who is setting me to the right and better technique. Segovia technique that is.

Johnny Geudel
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by Johnny Geudel » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:14 pm

As a rule flesh only players have a major problem with speed, amateurs and professionals.
Philosopherguy wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:28 am
Go on being ignorant and pigheaded. You don't listen and you don't accept anything different from what you believe in your little world. I'm glad that I will likely never cross paths with you.
Davekear's expertise is beyond question as you may conclude from his videos. Where are yours?

Philosopherguy
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Re: Anyone not use nails?

Post by Philosopherguy » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:33 am

Johnny Geudel wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:14 pm
As a rule flesh only players have a major problem with speed, amateurs and professionals.
Philosopherguy wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:28 am
Go on being ignorant and pigheaded. You don't listen and you don't accept anything different from what you believe in your little world. I'm glad that I will likely never cross paths with you.
Davekear's expertise is beyond question as you may conclude from his videos. Where are yours?
You don't need to be a guitar genius to call someone pigheaded and ignorant. Has basic common sense failed you? If you don't like what I write, you can always ignore it. I could care less what you think and what you want. I'm sick of the arrogance of some people around here. I suggest you read the whole post before commenting on something you know nothing about.

If people want to be flesh players, let them be. Some people think they can bully everyone around on here because they have a different perspective. You won't bully me.

Martin

In case you missed them: I have my posts on page 16 and page 20. I suggest you read them before you make such a ridiculous response.
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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