Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Here you can help by pointing out any mistakes in notes, fingering, tempo, dynamic markings, composers' dates, spelling, or bar (measure) numbering that you may find in the forum PDFs.
Please indicate the volume, title of the piece, page number and bar number, to make it easier to check.
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Bernhard Heimann
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Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:20 pm

Here's the first corrected version - no texts yet.

List of changes:

Lesson 2: Time signature added.

Lesson 3: Time signature added.

Lesson 4: Time signature added.

Lesson 5: Time signature added.

Lesson 6: Time signature added.

Lesson 7: Time signature added.

Lesson 8: Time signature added. Measure 19, beat 3: d instead of g, string changed to 4.

Lesson 9: Time signature added.

Lesson 10: Time signature added. Name of last note changed to "Sol". Placement of apoyando marks, LH and RH fingering adjusted.

Lesson 11: Time signature added. Placement of apoyando marks, LH and RH fingering adjusted.

Lesson 12: Time signature added. Placement of apoyando marks adjusted.

Lesson 13: Time signature added.

Lesson 14: Time signature added.

Lesson 15: Time signature added. Measure 15, beat 1+2 RH fingering corrected.

Lesson 16: Time signature added.

Lesson 17: Time signature added. Left margin adjusted.

Lesson 18: Time signature added.

Lesson 19: Time signature added.

Lesson 20: Time signature added.

Lesson 21: Time signature added.

Lesson 22: Time signature added.

Lesson 23: Time signature added. Measure 3, beats 2+3: RH fingering added. Measure 6 LH fingering adjusted,
Measure 7: RH fingering added.

Lesson 24: Time signature added.

Lesson 25: Time signature added. Left margin adjusted.

Lesson 26: Time signature added. Measure 1+9 apoyando for 6th string removed.

Lesson 27: Time signature added. Measure 1+5 apoyando for 6th string removed.

Lesson 28: Time signature added. Measure 5 apoyando for 6th string removed.

Lesson 29: Time signature added.

Lesson 30: Time signature added. Placement of apoyando marks adjusted.

Lesson 31: Time signature added. Placement of apoyando marks adjusted.

Lesson 32: Time signature added. Note names added.

Lesson 33-35: Time signature added.

Lesson 36: Time signature added.Note names removed (readability).

Lesson 39: Time signature added.

Lesson 41: Time signature added.

Lesson 42: Measures 5-9: RH fingering upper voice corrected.

Lesson 43: Position of apoyando markings adjusted.

Lesson 44: Time signature added.

Lesson 45: Time signature added.

Lesson 46: Time signature added.

Lesson 49: Time signature added. Displaced bracket repositioned.

Lesson 50: Time signature added. Measure 5: LH fingering for c# added.

Lesson 51: Time signature added. Measure 5: LH fingering for c# added.

Lesson 52: Time signature added.

Lesson 53: Time signature added. Apoyando sign on last chord removed.

Lesson 54: Time signature added. Measure 2: middle voice, 1/16 notes g-b-g replaced by b-d-b.

Lesson 55: Time signature added. Measure 6: Half bar sign changed.

Lesson 56: Measure 4, beat 2: apoyando removed, RH fingering added. Note heads in bass voice in measures 10, 11, 13, 14, 15.
apoyando added to first note in m. 11.

Lesson 57: Time signature added. Measure 2: 1/4 rest added in middle voice. Measure 8, beat 1: apoyando added, beat 3
1/4 rest added to lower voice. Measure 9: layout adjusted.

Lesson 58: layout adjusted, so that dotted 1/2 notes in the bass become clearly visible.

Lesson 59: Complete piece replaced by newer version with RH and LH fingering.

Lesson 60: Apoyando signs added in measures 1-8; measure 2: added RH fingering and adjusted layout.
Measure 14: RH fingering added.

Lesson 61: Time signature added.

Lesson 62: Measure 1+2: LH fingering added in bass voice.

Lesson 63: Time signature added. Measure 3: Layoud adjusted to make dotted quarter note visible.

Lesson 64: Time signature added.

Lesson 65: Layout adjusted to make dotted notes in bass clearly visible. Last measure: added a tie
in upper voice and removed apoyando sign.


Lesson 66: Minor layout adjustments in measures 2, 4, 8, 10, 11, 16.

Lesson 67: Two brackets added; position marking II removed.

Lesson 68: Measure 1: LH fingering added.

Lesson 69: Time signature added. Measures 5, 6, 13, 14: apoyando signs added. Measure 13: LH fingering added.

Lesson 70: Lesson 63: Time signature added. Apoyando signs adjusted. LH fingering added in measure 3, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13,15.

Lesson 71: Apoyando signs adjusted. Layout and fingering in 13-16 adjusted.

Lesson 72: Apoyando signs adjusted.

Lesson 73: Measure 3: Layout adjusted. Measures 5+13: natural in parenthesis added.

Lesson 74: Time signature added. Measure 2, beat 1: LH fingering added. Measure 7, beat 2: LH fingering added.
Measure 12: symbol for half bar exchanged. Measure 16: half bar symbol added.

Lesson 76: Measure 3-5 Layout corrected to make the dotted bass notes clearer. Measures 3+7 half bar symbol added.
Last note in piece: fingering removed.


Lesson 79: Measures 3+11, beat 2: ligado removed. Measure 2, beat 1: LH fingering added.
Measure 14: half bar symbol exchanged.

Lesson 80: Measure 3: half bar symbol exchanged.

Lesson 81: Measures 3,6,11,14: Half bar symbol exchanged. Measures 6+14: second 1/16 note changd from a to b flat.
Measure 8: Layout changed. Measure 16, beat 2: note head for harmonic changed.

Lesson 82: Time signature added. Measure 1, beat 2: apoyando removed.Measure 3, beat 2: RH fingering added.
Measure 5, beat 1: LH fingering added. Measures 4-5, 7-8: bracket adjusted. Measure 11: half bar symbol added.
Measures 12+14: minor layout changes.

Lesson 83: Notes stems in middle voice adjusted to make bass voice clearly visible. Measure 6, beat 2: a changed to g.
Measure 19, beat2: LH fingering changed. Measure 23, beat 3: LH fingering changed

Lesson 84: Time signature added. Position of triplet brackets adjusted. Measures 5+9: half bar symbol changed.
Measure 8: e to be played on fifth string, not on third. Measures 9, 10, 14: LH fingering added.

Lesson 85: Expression markings added. Measures 8+15: Layout adjusted to make dotted notes visible. Measure 15: RH fingering added.

Lesson 86: Bracket symbols for bars exchanged. Measure 2, bass is E. Measure 6, 1/16 notes: d-f#-d instead of a-c-a.


Scales: completely replaced by newer version (layout corrections only).

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Denis Paradis
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:37 pm

While translating the instructions I fell upon an issue in lesson 49.

One of the issues as been somewhat edited by M. Delcamp as I saw in the latest version, the screenshot that illustrates the present report has been made with the previous version but I still think we need to make some edits there:

The Spanish text reads (portamento) and says we should see ---- Indications between the natural C and sharp measure 4 to the next... (EDIT * Note I will use glissando instead of portamento in the translations)
lecon49Esp.jpg
Quote from above post
Lesson 49: Displaced bracket repositioned.
The bracket is now where the text says the doted line should be... (Disregard the arrow pointing to previous error)

Suggest:

Add glissando (gliss) and .... between C & C#

Add position marker II ( but that might be preceding a few lessons? ) and follow up bracket to the end of measure 5.
lecon49.jpg
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Jean-François Delcamp
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:33 pm

Voici un PDF réunissant textes et musiques :
****

Il manque les traductions anglaise et italienne des titres des leçons : 2, 9, 16, 17, 24, 25, 31 et 36.

Une fois les traductions complétées avec votre aide ; je publie le PDF.
Ensuite, je déplacerai cette présente discussion dans le forum : viewforum.php?f=97 afin qu'elle devienne publique et que tous les membres puissent contribuer aux corrections des "Primeras Lecciones".
:( + ♫ = :)

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Bernhard Heimann
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:05 pm

Cher Jean-François,

merci beaucoup - c'était beaucoup de travail pour vous.
Voici la traduction anglaise des titres:

2: Scale 1, from C on the 5th string to G on the 3rd string
9: Scale 2, from G on the 3rd string to D on the 2nd string
16: The first two scale forms combined
17: Scale 3, from C on the 2nd string to G on the 1st string
24: The first three scale forms combined
25: Scale 4, from G on the 6th string to D on the 4th string
31: Scale 5, from E on the 6th string to B on the 5th string
36: All scale forms combined

I'll ask Paola Liguori from the Italian forum to translate the texts to Italian.

Bernhard

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Jean-François Delcamp
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:55 pm

:okok: Bernhard
:merci:
:( + ♫ = :)

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GeoffB
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by GeoffB » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:43 pm

Cher Jean-François,

Je viens de remarquer une petite erreur dans le texte anglaise pour la leçon 2, qui devrait être :

Point out to the pupil that a dotted line next to the number indicating the string means that the other notes that follow are on the same string. (J'avais omis le "s" du mot "means").

Et dans le prologue, si l'on va traduire littéralement le texte de Sagreras, il faudra cette modification :

Remplacer : Roman numerals indicate the position or fret, so for a barre chord at the fifth fret a “V” will be used, for the 7th a "CVII".
par : Large numbers followed by an "a" indicate a barre, so that a large five with an "a" in the form (5a) indicates a barre at the fifth fret. *

Et remplacer : 3 Roman numbers designate the position.
par : 3 Large numbers with an "a" indicate a barre. *
(note bien les astérisques)

Et ajouter au bas de la page :
* Editor’s note: A different notation is used in this Delcamp edition. Here Roman numerals indicate the position or fret, and are preceded by a "C" for a barre chord or a slashed "C" for a half barre, so for a barre at the fifth fret a “CV” will be used, for the seventh fret a "CVII".

La traduction française aura besoin de la même modification, et les versions espagnole et italienne auront besoin de l'ajout de la note.

Amitiés,
Geoff
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Denis Paradis
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:13 pm

Je vais editer la dernière française du prologue ce soir en ajoutant les notes de l'éditeur comme Geoff a fait.

Et je l'ajouterai au fil de discussion "Lesson text for translators"
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:02 pm

Denis Paradis wrote:Je vais editer la dernière française du prologue ce soir en ajoutant les notes de l'éditeur comme Geoff a fait.

Et je l'ajouterai au fil de discussion "Lesson text for translators"


:)
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by GeoffB » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 am

Il faudra ajouter aux versions française et italienne, dans le premier paragraphe (POUR LES ENSEIGNANTS), le "(1)" qui renvoie le lecteur à la note en bas de page. C'est-à-dire:
Une technique que j'appelle "apoyar" (notes butées) (1) ...
modalità che io chiamo «appoggiare» (1) ...
et de préférence le mettre en exposant (in superscript) dans toutes les 4 versions.

Geoff
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Denis Paradis
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:50 am

GeoffB wrote:Il faudra ajouter aux versions française et italienne, dans le premier paragraphe (POUR LES ENSEIGNANTS), le "(1)" qui renvoie le lecteur à la note en bas de page. C'est-à-dire:

Geoff
Already done in version 7 :)
1.jpg
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:54 am

Voici les textes des titres en italien, que Paola Liguori (Forum Italien) a traduits:

2: Scala 1, da Do sulla quinta corda a Sol sulla terza corda.
9: Scala 2, da Sol sulla terza corda a Re sulla seconda corda.
16: I primi due modelli di scala uniti.
17: Scala 3, da Do sulla seconda corda a Sol sulla prima corda.
24: I primi tre modelli di scala uniti.
25: Scala 4, da Sol sulla sesta corda a Re sulla quarta corda.
31: Scala 5, da Mi sulla sesta corda a Si sulla quinta corda.
36: Tutti i modelli di scala uniti.

Bernhard

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Denis Paradis
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:01 am

I just spotted one of my own typos reading the final project :oops:

Lesson 3 there is an unwanted "u" here:
faute.jpg
Hope I won't find too many...
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Denis Paradis » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:06 am

Suggest replacing "bases" in the French scale definitions by "formes de gamme" to be consistent with English, and Italian versions.
bases.jpg
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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by wilhelmreich » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:07 am

Thank you very very much for this great work. I don't to sound impolite od ungrateful, but is it possible to get a version without any text and maybe without so much fingerings? I know, that your aim was to create an exact copy of the original printed version and it is a great thing to do. But there are reasons for offering an alternative.

Each text is printed four times in four different languages and such much space (and ink and paper) is wasted because you don't need 75% of the text. Maybe you could separate the music and the text and readers could decide, which pages they will print out or not. Many of us would like to use this pieces for sight reading and having only music on a page would be be better. Aguado's school at Thorlaksson' "Guitar School Page" ist a good example for what I mean. Also many studies are page broken - if you want to print out a single study, it's not always user friendly.

My teacher (and I think many others) adviced me regarding Sagreras to mostly ignore his fingerings and also often to ignore his text. The music is great but his teaching is somewhat outdated - similar to Aguado's text in his escuela. It has of course much historical value. It would be good if we could choose between the historical version with full text and detailed apoyando-centered fingering (beginner's or historian's version, those who are interested in the method as such) and a version with music only and with fewer fingerings (intermediate students who are interested in a study or two and want to print them out separately or are interested in music for sight-reading). Is it possible? If you still have the Sibelius templates in different work phases, it's maybe not so much work to export the before-text-phase or even before-fingering-phase as PDFs (even if they are "not officially supported" PDFs)?

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Re: Sagreras_Las_Primeras_Lecciones for proof-readers

Post by Bernhard Heimann » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:40 am

Hi Wilhelm,

this is an interesting proposition. But it's quite a piece of work to do, which could be done after the completion on the Sagreras project.
Removing the texts is easy, but removing the fingerings requires decisions what to take away and what to leave. Of course, every
single study has to be edited. We are not using Sibelius, but Finale, and the lessons were done by different typesetters.
And we need the agreement of our editor, Prof. Delcamp. Let's see what he thinks about it.
We've also got a German version of the studies on our wish list...

Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard

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