Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
David Conti
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Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by David Conti » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:06 pm

I took this guitar in trade and don't know what it is or what it's history is. It's 629 scale and plays in tune very well.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
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andreas777
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by andreas777 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:19 pm

Do you have a picture of the back?
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David Conti
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by David Conti » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:30 pm

here is the back
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gjo
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by gjo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:36 pm

Saxony - 2nd half of the 19th century. The bridge is probably not original, should be a pin bridge. Any signs for pins inside?

David Conti
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by David Conti » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:47 pm

Yes, there is evidence of the original pin bridge.
Sides look like Brazilian rosewood, back looks like mahogany but not quite sure.
Any idea of value would be appreciated too.

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andreas777
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by andreas777 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:54 pm

It looks like a German guitar from about 1910/20, but this two colored head looks strange for these guitars and therefore it might be some years newer. The brigde and tuners have been replaced. Similar guitars are offered quite frequently on auction or non-auction sites in Germany.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Unfortunately that bridge is very crudely made. As far as that type of trade instrument goes it was at the upper end, hence all the inlay.
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andreas777
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by andreas777 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:34 pm

Maybe it's a Meinel & Herold.
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oc chuck
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by oc chuck » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:05 pm

Have you looked under the top all around the sound hole?
Some luthiers will sign or ID under the top.

How does it sound and play?

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Guitar-ded
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by Guitar-ded » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:57 pm

Regarding the tuners, they do look newer than would the originals. In that case, are they 35mm spacings and does anyone know if the originals would have been that same spacing or has work been done on the head?
Sorry, but it's hard to see on the photos, it may be obvious in hand.
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MessyTendon
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:16 pm

The tuners are all wrong, the bridge is all wrong, but it's a beautiful guitar.

If you can reach Rick Turner, he might have a better idea than any of us. He knows a lot about early guitars like that.

David Conti
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by David Conti » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:26 pm

Hi Messy,
Is this the Rick Turner that makes electric guitars? If not where is he located?
Cheers,

Philosopherguy
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by Philosopherguy » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:01 am

Maybe a PM to someone like Scott Tremblay? He seems to have a lot of knowledge of early guitars.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by Michael.N. » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:44 am

It comes out of the SE German traditional instrument making area that GJO has already stated. It was largely a cottage style industry and it produced countless thousands of violins, guitars and whatever else was popular at the time. Schonbach and Markneurkirchen are the two well known centres. Bubenreuth also became an important centre, which is where Hofner is located. They were virtually all made by a number of hands, not necessarily all working under the same roof. The export numbers of instruments from this area circa 1900 were quite astonishing, many destined for the hungry market of the US. They are rarely signed, although some may have the label of a retailer. They really come under the description of a 'German trade instrument', some term them 'factory'. To give you an idea of the numbers. There were over 400 makers working in Schonbach alone, producing well over 150,000 instruments in one year. That was for Schonbach and the it's surrounding villages. There were other centres also producing instruments. This was the age where musical instruments were one of the few forms of home entertainment, hence the demand and the heady production numbers.
BTW. The OP's guitar would be considered a deluxe model.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Any thoughts on the origins of this guitar?

Post by Michael.N. » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:50 am

andreas777 wrote:Maybe it's a Meinel & Herold.
Here's a catalogue for Meinel & Herold:

http://jeanluc.matte.free.fr/cat/catmein07.htm

Unfortunately they also 'made' violins, accordions, lute guitars, banjo's, mandolins, recorders, flutes . . . .

There you have it. It doesn't really tell you much about the people that really made it. This type of thing wasn't entirely uncommon. I have a Cittern that dates back to around the 1770's. It is stamped 'Longman, London' on the back of the instrument. In my local museum is a Longman square piano. I'm quite sure that Longman also made flutes, probably harps as well, no doubt anything else that was in demand and that they could get their hands on.
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