Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rinneby
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by rinneby » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:22 pm

This is what I learned when talking to the Swedish Board of Agriculture who handles CITES certificates, I can't speak for other countries:

You can order a guitar from anywhere in the world from a private seller (if you buy it private as well) if the guitar is made before 2017-01-02 and does not contain more than 10kg of B-listed woods. If you buy from a store or as a company you need permits for B-listed woods. A-listed woods like Brazilian always needs a certificate.

Hope it helps.

/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro

You are the instrument, not the guitar

SteveL123
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:20 am

I may be commissioning a guitar from a EU country. The Luthier told me that East Indian Rosewood and Ebony is now protected by CITES and may be risky shipping a guitar to the US made from those woods. First of all, is that true?

The Luthier suggested Zirocote for the back and sides but what woods would be a good substitute for Rosewood for the bridge and Ebony for the fingerboard?

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Trevor Gore
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:16 am

Lacey is much more of a problem than CITES when shipping commercially to the USA. It applies to all woods (and shell, and bone...)

Marcus Dominelli
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Marcus Dominelli » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:00 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:20 am
The Luthier suggested Zirocote for the back and sides but what woods would be a good substitute for Rosewood for the bridge and Ebony for the fingerboard?
Bocote seems promising for back and sides and bridges. Pau ferro is great for bridges. I've been using it lately as a replacement for both latifolia and nigra, and it's right in the perfect weight/ stiffness zone I like.
The ebonies are still OK for shipping, so you can use most ebonies for the fingerboard.

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Chris Sobel
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Chris Sobel » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:59 pm

The option that doesn't seem to get discussed a lot here is just learning the system of paperwork to get guitars full of rosewood shipped anywhere. Sure it's a hurdle and it's great to explore other options, but given most luthiers have a lot of rosewood and they are great guitar woods, it makes sense to not let the man hold us down!
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jim watts
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by jim watts » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:46 pm

That's a really good point Chris.

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Chris Sobel
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Chris Sobel » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:19 am

Thank you Jim. I know that government beurocrisy can seem really intimidating but it is just a bunch of people like you and me who have all their own requirements to do a "good" job at the end of the day. The key is knowing what those requirements are so you can give them what they need to give you what you need.
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SteveL123
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:34 am

Chris Sobel wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:59 pm
The option that doesn't seem to get discussed a lot here is just learning the system of paperwork to get guitars full of rosewood shipped anywhere. Sure it's a hurdle and it's great to explore other options, but given most luthiers have a lot of rosewood and they are great guitar woods, it makes sense to not let the man hold us down!
Can you provide a run down on the system of paperwork required to ship a guitar with ebony and non Brazilian rosewood from a EU country to the USA. Thanks in advance.

Marcus Dominelli
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Marcus Dominelli » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:49 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:34 am
Can you provide a run down on the system of paperwork required to ship a guitar with ebony and non Brazilian rosewood from a EU country to the USA. Thanks in advance.
There were some quite good threads on this subject earlier in the year, where E.U. luthiers were discussing how to export rosewood from the E.U.
It's probably just a matter of getting in touch with the CITES authorities in your county and finding out what info they need for you to document your rosewood, obtain the necessary forms, so that you can ship a CITES permit with each guitar. Then there's the LACEY documents to do as well....

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Chris Sobel
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Re: Wood Database Take on CITES and Rosewood

Post by Chris Sobel » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:43 am

First he needs to apply for an export permit for the guitar, which is done through the local CITES office specific to the country he is in. There is a list of contacts on the CITES webpage. This should not be difficult even if he didn't declare his pre-2017 stocks as I believe it is still within the window to do so in a lot of European countries. You'll also need to apply for an import permit through the FWS here in the US.

There have been a number of extensive writeups on this subject like Marcus said.
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