Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Carlos Castilla
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Fayetteville NC

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Carlos Castilla » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:52 am

Rasputin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:12 pm
Adrian Allan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:56 am
Has anybody tried hypnotism, or does anybody think that hypnotism would work?
I can understand that they might tolerate all of that - but why anyone would want to manufacture a desire to perform, just to put themselves in that position, is beyond me.
Situations may vary. Here is my take on this.
I teach guitar and other classes at the college level here in North Carolina. I also have a private studio. From my experience, people-who don't necessarily want to pursue a career as a performer- find themselves in a performance situation pretty much by default. The system pushes music students regardless of their emphasis to perform on a semestral basis in order to get a grade. Students who don't major in music performance but music education, general studies, or even a minor in music instead, still need to have a principal instrument and perform a recital in order to graduate. For most of them it is a nerve-racking experience, but one that is important to have no matter what your emphasis is in your musical career. It is very formative for the future. Just people who end up as musicologists, theory teachers, or administrators can get away without performing at all later in life. Everyone else will need to deal with that in one way or another.
As for students who belong to.my private studio outside of college, I always encourage them to play at the end of the semester's studio recital, but it is not mandatory whatsoever. I try my best to make the occasion feel like a celebration, and to choose an adequate repertoire that will allow them to have the best experience on stage. The month before the recital we do recorded runthroughs and we invite family members to attend the lessons. This exercise helps them to overcome the feeling of self awareness that kicks in once you play in front of others. By the time the date of the performance comes "almost" everyone feels ready and do a great job. They end up having a great time and their families and friends in attendance feel great as well. I, as their teacher, am taking a risk as well, but a controlled one. I don't want my students to look nervous or embarrassed. That will make me.look bad and is not good for business:)
Having said that, definitely classical guitar is not for everyone. I am the first one to recommend to try commercial music or songwriter guitar style to those who don't find joy in classical guitar. But soon they will find out that even when they have to play chords to the lyrics of their favorite tune, if it is in front of an audience, they still will have to deal with nerves.
Here is an anecdote. I live in an area that has a vast military population. I have in my studio military people who have been deployed many times. I had a student once who was a Jump Master. Great guy. He used to show up for lessons late in the afternoon, and during the day he probably had jumped from am airplane 3 to 4 times training soldiers. And yet, performing Classical guitar in front of an audience was something that he found overwhelming. That shows us that is not the nature of the task itself but instead the sense of not feeling 100% in control of the task, what triggers an anxiety reaction. It is all about tricking our minds into believing that there is no uncertainty.
Staufer 1830 Replica by Scot Tremblay
Andres Marvi 2015

Rasputin
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 12:25 pm

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Rasputin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:27 am

lagartija wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:09 am
For me, playing is totally different than listening to music played by others. So I agree that that is certainly sufficient reason to play and performance is not a requirement. However, you did say that you don’t understand why someone would do it if they do not find it natural and easy, and I tried to explain why I would challenge myself. The confidence to face an uncomfortable situation you understood in the example I gave of martial arts. Why would you not accept that for me, performance is a slightly different challenge, but the confidence it takes, the focus it takes, the exposure of your vulnerability it requires is the same type of test.
I do accept that, but was suggesting there was more to it. I was speaking about people generally (though in response to your post) but was psychoanalysing without a licence and apologise if I caused any offence.
Carlos Castilla wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:52 am
Rasputin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:12 pm
Adrian Allan wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:56 am
Has anybody tried hypnotism, or does anybody think that hypnotism would work?
I can understand that they might tolerate all of that - but why anyone would want to manufacture a desire to perform, just to put themselves in that position, is beyond me.
Situations may vary. Here is my take on this.
I teach guitar and other classes at the college level here in North Carolina. I also have a private studio. From my experience, people-who don't necessarily want to pursue a career as a performer- find themselves in a performance situation pretty much by default. The system pushes music students regardless of their emphasis to perform on a semestral basis in order to get a grade. Students who don't major in music performance but music education, general studies, or even a minor in music instead, still need to have a principal instrument and perform a recital in order to graduate. For most of them it is a nerve-racking experience, but one that is important to have no matter what your emphasis is in your musical career.
I agree with this, but although there are a few college students on here I am pretty sure that the vast majority are older and are not working their way through the college system. For most people on here, the only real issue is playing in front of a teacher, which is not a full-fledged performance by any means.
Having said that, definitely classical guitar is not for everyone. I am the first one to recommend to try commercial music or songwriter guitar style to those who don't find joy in classical guitar. But soon they will find out that even when they have to play chords to the lyrics of their favorite tune, if it is in front of an audience, they still will have to deal with nerves.
I am so disappointed that having made such constructive comments you go on equate finding joy in classical guitar with enjoying public performance.
Here is an anecdote. I live in an area that has a vast military population. I have in my studio military people who have been deployed many times. I had a student once who was a Jump Master. Great guy. He used to show up for lessons late in the afternoon, and during the day he probably had jumped from am airplane 3 to 4 times training soldiers. And yet, performing Classical guitar in front of an audience was something that he found overwhelming. That shows us that is not the nature of the task itself but instead the sense of not feeling 100% in control of the task, what triggers an anxiety reaction. It is all about tricking our minds into believing that there is no uncertainty.
Not logical captain. All it shows is that a guy who can jump from an aeroplane can still be nervous performing in front of an audience. The explanation is just your hunch - it is not there in the data. It could be right, but I for one doubt that confident performers believe that there is no uncertainty, when every concert reminds them that there is. I think it's more about not minding the uncertainty.

Carlos Castilla
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Fayetteville NC

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Carlos Castilla » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Carlos Castilla wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:52 am
Rasputin wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:12 pm

I can understand that they might tolerate all of that - but why anyone would want to manufacture a desire to perform, just to put themselves in that position, is beyond me.
Situations may vary. Here is my take on this.
I teach guitar and other classes at the college level here in North Carolina. I also have a private studio. From my experience, people-who don't necessarily want to pursue a career as a performer- find themselves in a performance situation pretty much by default. The system pushes music students regardless of their emphasis to perform on a semestral basis in order to get a grade. Students who don't major in music performance but music education, general studies, or even a minor in music instead, still need to have a principal instrument and perform a recital in order to graduate. For most of them it is a nerve-racking experience, but one that is important to have no matter what your emphasis is in your musical career.
I agree with this, but although there are a few college students on here I am pretty sure that the vast majority are older and are not working their way through the college system. For most people on here, the only real issue is playing in front of a teacher, which is not a full-fledged performance by any means
.

Thanks for clarifying this. Yes, I see what you are saying. I have several older students and just playing their pieces in the lesson can be quite a challenge. However, those with more experience in the past generally tend to overcome those issues
Having said that, definitely classical guitar is not for everyone. I am the first one to recommend to try commercial music or songwriter guitar style to those who don't find joy in classical guitar. But soon they will find out that even when they have to play chords to the lyrics of their favorite tune, if it is in front of an audience, they still will have to deal with nerves.
I am so disappointed that having made such constructive comments you go on equate finding joy in classical guitar with enjoying public performance
.

I didn't say or imply that with my comment, sorry. I was just stating the obvious. Most people who seek guitar lessons don't know about classical guitar. That is a fact. I have taught many teenagers whose parents wanted them to study classical guitar because in their opinion is a more educated and formal training. Their kids would rather play rock or pop tunes if play at all. When that kind of student is confronted with the idea of playing in recital, the outcome is not very good. If I don't allow the kid to play in the recital, the parents generally don't feel to good about it.
Here is an anecdote. I live in an area that has a vast military population. I have in my studio military people who have been deployed many times. I had a student once who was a Jump Master. Great guy. He used to show up for lessons late in the afternoon, and during the day he probably had jumped from am airplane 3 to 4 times training soldiers. And yet, performing Classical guitar in front of an audience was something that he found overwhelming. That shows us that is not the nature of the task itself but instead the sense of not feeling 100% in control of the task, what triggers an anxiety reaction. It is all about tricking our minds into believing that there is no uncertainty.
Not logical captain. All it shows is that a guy who can jump from an aeroplane can still be nervous performing in front of an audience. The explanation is just your hunch - it is not there in the data. It could be right, but I for one doubt that confident performers believe that there is no uncertainty, when every concert reminds them that there is. I think it's more about not minding the uncertainty.
[/quote]
I disagree. Controlled risk is one thing, uncertainty another. A professional player can not have any uncertainty at all. That doesn't mean that some mistakes cannot happen or that some notes can sound not as clean, but in general a pro player can audiate and visualize the program from top to bottom without any surprises. In case of a memory slip, they can fix it right away jumping ahead.
As I said before and believe deeply, the higher the awareness of the music the less room for anxiety.
Staufer 1830 Replica by Scot Tremblay
Andres Marvi 2015

Rasputin
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 12:25 pm

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Rasputin » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:59 pm

Carlos Castilla wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:49 pm
I am so disappointed that having made such constructive comments you go on equate finding joy in classical guitar with enjoying public performance
.

I didn't say or imply that with my comment, sorry.
Good to know that's not your view - must have misread you.
Here is an anecdote. I live in an area that has a vast military population. I have in my studio military people who have been deployed many times. I had a student once who was a Jump Master. Great guy. He used to show up for lessons late in the afternoon, and during the day he probably had jumped from am airplane 3 to 4 times training soldiers. And yet, performing Classical guitar in front of an audience was something that he found overwhelming. That shows us that is not the nature of the task itself but instead the sense of not feeling 100% in control of the task, what triggers an anxiety reaction. It is all about tricking our minds into believing that there is no uncertainty.
Not logical captain. All it shows is that a guy who can jump from an aeroplane can still be nervous performing in front of an audience. The explanation is just your hunch - it is not there in the data. It could be right, but I for one doubt that confident performers believe that there is no uncertainty, when every concert reminds them that there is. I think it's more about not minding the uncertainty.
I disagree. Controlled risk is one thing, uncertainty another.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, I think.

User avatar
Andrew Fryer
Posts: 2530
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:13 pm
Location: London SE5

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:02 pm

nothing extroverted about brass players
23561656_1908883152762988_7424641321488994056_n.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

Karen
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:11 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Karen » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:36 am

Playing for an appreciative audience is always considered the pinnacle of why we play music but I think there is another side to it which is really more important. My hero has always been my husband’s uncle. He built a soundproof room for his Grand piano and, although I was told he was a concert level pianist, he refused to play for anyone. He is now in his nineties, living in assisted living, and has an electric piano in his room. The point is, he always played for himself and for years has been strong enough to not be forced into performing when he doesn’t want to. Playing music well is a very focused task and I think for some people that is enough. Sort of like yoga, a meditation-like activity that doesn’t really need an audience (does anyone watch yoga?) That’s not to say performing isn’t a wonderful option for many - but not for everyone.

Return to “Public Space”