How to change global attitude in our Art? from copying as an ultimate purpose - to creation and self -expression?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
gingko
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Re: How to change global attitude in our Art? from copying as an ultimate purpose - to creation and self -expression?

Post by gingko » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:02 am

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:41 pm

Yes, absolutely, I agree - there different ways to express one's creativity and creative interpretation is one of them.

But... "global" classical guitar attitude is such that only a few, academically recognized authors have "RIGHT" to compose (create) something new and all other folks should only interpret their creation and do not dare to try their own... this idea implanted in our psyche in the process of music education and then reproduced again and again...thus this idea is dominant now... and it is idea with which I totally disagree!
That is why I am asking original question... not because I want to devalue interpretation etc.
For me education is something which should teach me how to read and write.
But not in a way there I will only read something and then learn it by heart and then write it publicly myself it in a beautiful manner... (even it could be a fun to do)

No I read (music) simply because I enjoy it and not because I want to ( learn it by heart and then write it publicly )
and if I write something - I want to write my own words!

This attitude and creativity which aim to make your own stuff is standard in many arts (like painting) but not in classical guitar and academic music in general...

Why can't we recognize that this part of what we do or can do should have equal value if not more with global attitude which exist now?
Thanks for the further explanation. I come from a classical piano background. Literature for piano is so vast, I think there is less attempt to protect it. A great deal of "new" music, however, is written for teaching material.

An educational thread for me. Thanks, very interesting!

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Arash Ahmadi
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Re: How to change global attitude in our Art? from copying as an ultimate purpose - to creation and self -expression?

Post by Arash Ahmadi » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:53 pm

amade wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:05 pm
But artistry will always be rare. It's a result of unusual talent, commitment and intelligence. As for expressing the self, is that really the purpose in performing the music of fine composers? Don't the best performers express what they perceive to be inherent in the score rather than the self? Of course one's musical personality will inform a performance. But shouldn't it enhance what the composer created and expected from the conventions of performance practice at the time?
Good points! I agree that an artist is supposed to express higher meanings than just expressing the self. There are rare exceptionally talented musicians and composers who need very little training to achieve what other musicians/composers might achieve in years and years of studies and practice. But at the same time creativity is still not very much appreciated in the academic system or school. The same applies to all the other subjects, not just art. At the same time creativity cannot be taught really. One must have a good understanding of what already exists before being able to create something new...

All said, sometimes one might read a line in a book, watch a movie scene or listen to a piece of music and feel that that book, movie or music expressed him/her even better than s/he could ever express him/herself (hopefully I'm making some sense). So I think copying (not as an ultimate goal) can also be a medium to self-expression. Academically, copying can teach you a lot of things! Until one reaches a point where s/he doesn't need to copy anymore...
To send light into the darkness of men's heart, such is the duty of the artist. (Robert Schumann)
2012 Jeroen Hilhorst

ben etow
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Re: How to change global attitude in our Art? from copying as an ultimate purpose - to creation and self -expression?

Post by ben etow » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:13 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:27 pm
ben etow wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:05 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:45 pm
I see fundamental problem in general approach to guitar activities and guitar education, as well as in other instruments education in field of Music.
Well, we all know Roland Dyens, Dusan Bogdanovic, Ben Verdery, Marek Pasieczny, Sergio Assad, Leo Brouwer, Boris Gaquere... I think classical guitar world is by far the most vivid within (or actually outside) the classical music world, with its so many complete players/composers/arrangers...

There many more of them and I even enjoy myself composing or arranging at times. General education and even art education tends to favour reproduction, at least before pushing to creativity.
I never learnt composing or arranging. So what? I don't think it is something you need to learn from school/conservatory and if you do so, you may end up copying old masters or the last wave of succesfull composers...

And yes, virtually everything has already been done :(
well...while all these people are very nice and it is pleasure for them and listeners that they playing guitar ...- wasn't in this forum - hundreds complaints that concerts of classical guitar became a dull repetition of small list of the pieces?
and if everything created before - when who created Marek Pasieczny music (for example) before?
could you please give me the names?
is his music bear any correlation with... renaissance music (for example)?
indian music?
chinese?
Well, I am not this form, I am just part of it... The ones who complaint have to go and see players who play interesting and/or new and/or creative music...

Please read carefully... Virtually everything is not everything. And yes Marek is special indeed. I enjoy his music very much but even him gets some of his inspiration from the composers to whom he writes homages for instance. To me it is an illusion to think one can create without any knowledge/partial copy/inspiration of old masters...

But come on, the whole Western, Eastern music, music history is so vast... We can't even know everything. I can't be sure I'll create something really new when I'm composing. That doesn't mean it won"t be interesting or even distinctive (maybe it isn't the right word), but completely new?

CliffK
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Location: Virginia

Re: How to change global attitude in our Art? from copying as an ultimate purpose - to creation and self -expression?

Post by CliffK » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:12 am

Eno,
Thank you for posting the very moving arrangement and performance of Arvo Part’s composition. Spiritual, powerful, and beautiful.
Michael Thames 2010 It Spruce/BR
Rockbridge SJ cedar/mahagony 2007, cutaway, inlay

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