To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:09 pm

The only Giuliani concerto I heard live with Steidl (and his romantic guitar or copy, can't remember) sounded OK, with mike if I am not mistaken, but most importantly is clearly designed to work well: no continuous scales with the whole orchestra at the same time (the guitar cannot be heard in so many parts of Aranjuez), parts which made sense - the guitar playing with some instruments and not all, etc.

Gut is said to be similar to carbon, so I wouldn't say they were quieter for sure, knowing that they (edit: the romantic guitars) did sound brighter even not considering the string type.
Last edited by ben etow on Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

edwardsguitar

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by edwardsguitar » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:33 pm

ben etow wrote:The only Giuliani concerto I heard live with Steidl (and his romantic guitar or copy, can't remember) sounded OK, with mike if I am not mistaken, but most importantly is clearly designed to work well: no continuous scales with the whole orchestra at the same time (the guitar cannot be heard in so many parts of Aranjuez), parts which made sense - the guitar playing with some instruments and not all, etc.

Gut is said to be similar to carbon, so I wouldn't say they were quieter for sure, knowing that they did sound brighter even not considering the string type.
Just to be clear; I meant the violinists, etc of the 19th cent. and their instruments must have been quieter than the modern versions with steel strings and different bows. I have several vintage 19th cent. guitars and a couple of copies; they can be loud and bright, and project very well. Their tone is something that is an acquired taste though.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:46 am

OK, thanks for clearing that out.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:13 pm

Lawler wrote:
ben etow wrote: I tried it and am waiting for my speaker within a few weeks as my partner in Locango trio (with cello) already got hers. Truly stunning, incredible and indispensible for chamber music (and concertos of course).
OK Thanks. It would be very interesting if you were to share your experience with the amplification system when you receive it.
Hi,

I'll go to Bordeaux next week in order to try my new Joie speaker and fine-tune it with my 2015 Joie.

In the meantime, you may want to have a look at an article from a French magazine.
It's in French of course, but you can see Thibault Cauvin using his in the middle of the orchestra when recording his new Vivaldi album. The speaker is in front of Thibault, next to the blue (mike) cable on the 3rd pic.
http://culturebox.francetvinfo.fr/musiq ... ent-246685

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:18 am

Hi,

I'm back from Bordeauw with my Joie speaker and already used it in a small concert within Locango (two guitars and a cello) and I felt so free... More (effortless) dynamics, more sustain, with my colleagues hearing me as well as myself...
And all this with the very same tone colour as my guitar.

I can play louder with my amped guitar than with my baby grand piano home, even with pedal, still with the very same tone colour as without amplification. AMAZING!

No wonder Thibault Cauvin uses his now both for concerts and recording with orchestra.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:34 am

Oh, forgot to mention it's all Wireless!

User avatar
markodarko
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Location: Leyenda-On-Sea

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by markodarko » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:53 am

I think it's a no-brainer to play amplified to a large audience. The alternative is that you play variations of forte all the time in case quiet notes don't translate to the audience. Doing this has the same effect as playing through a compressor. Limited dynamics and consequently, limited "life" in the pieces.

I would rather listen to an amplified performer that could afford to play dynamics all the way from pp through to ff and hear all the little nuances and subtleties of tone as one would hear in an intimate setting.

Anyone who's ever heard an artist bash out on the guitar unamplified will know how draining it can be to listen to an entire concert like that.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

hoppy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:12 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by hoppy » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:17 pm

I saw Xufei Yang play relatively recently with an orchestra. She was mic'd, I had good seats and I could barely make out what she was playing except when the orchestra was silent. Such a disappointment, but then appreciate the problem of blending acoustic sound with a single amplified instrument. It strengthened my opinion that the guitar doesn't really go well with orchestra.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:43 pm

markodarko wrote:I think it's a no-brainer to play amplified to a large audience. The alternative is that you play variations of forte all the time in case quiet notes don't translate to the audience. Doing this has the same effect as playing through a compressor. Limited dynamics and consequently, limited "life" in the pieces.

I would rather listen to an amplified performer that could afford to play dynamics all the way from pp through to ff and hear all the little nuances and subtleties of tone as one would hear in an intimate setting.

Anyone who's ever heard an artist bash out on the guitar unamplified will know how draining it can be to listen to an entire concert like that.
Exactly. Life in music means dynamics and in a decent (not even big) hall, we guitarists lose any dynamic range, and we even lose tone colour changes we like so much when playing for ourselves.

Here rehearsing with Locango, Learning to play with added sustain...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by ben etow on Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:45 pm

Thibault Cauvin in concert with his Joie amp/speaker...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:17 pm

Here a clip for Thibault's next Vivaldi album (recorded with Joie's amp):
http://www.thibaultcauvin.com/

ronjazz
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ronjazz » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:47 pm

I went to hear Jorge Caballero a year ago in a small hall. Unfortunately, the room was DEAD, and Jorge struggled mightily throughout the concert, and didn't come out to greet people afterwards (strange, he's very friendly and outgoing). A small system with a touch of reverb would have given both him and the audience a much better experience. He was getting darker and more frustrated as the concert went on, and was unable to deliver his usual stunning performance. In my experience (50 years of pro performing), only the guitarists in the audience object to amplification unless its done poorly, the civilians don't know the difference, but certainly appreciate getting their money's worth. I also saw Segovia several times in large halls, but rarely heard him well. I always bring a small system and mic, just in case, and it's been a wise move several times.
Lester Devoe Flamenco Negra
Lester Devoe Flamenco Blanca
Aparicio Flamenco Blanca with RMC pickup
Bartolex 7-string with RMC pickup
Giannini 7-string with Shadow pickup
Sal Pace 7-string archtop

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:37 pm

Thibault Cauvin's next Vivaldi album with Sony using Joie's system... Here's a whole movement/long take:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4gBfCYPn74[/youtube]

Adam
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:51 pm
Location: USA

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by Adam » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:30 pm

I've seen a ton of CG shows, lots of big names including Williams, Barrueco, Dyens, Yang, Beijing Duo, Dylla etc, and all were mic'd. I've never seen a performer not mic'd.

ben etow
Posts: 919
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: To mic or not to mic, that is the question

Post by ben etow » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:17 pm

Adam wrote:I've seen a ton of CG shows, lots of big names including Williams, Barrueco, Dyens, Yang, Beijing Duo, Dylla etc, and all were mic'd. I've never seen a performer not mic'd.
I've seen both, miked or not... When miked they virtually all sounded artificial or even awfull - both solo, with other instruments and orchestra.
It is possible to do much better now.

Return to “Public Space”