Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:05 pm

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Nicely done, Roger. You have a good feel for this one.
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Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:09 pm

David Norton wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:05 pm
^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Nicely done, Roger. You have a good feel for this one.
Thank you David. :)

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:34 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:12 pm
Philosopherguy wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:18 am
So, I have decided to join the crowd and post a recording with the Op 60 crowd. I just recorded it tonight and I promised myself I would get it done. After getting frustrated for a while and making stupid mistakes, I decided that I would splice together 2 versions to make the whole piece. I might re-do it later and get it in one take with fewer mistakes. But, I just don't record well in front of the mic! I have no idea why I get nervous in front of a mic! hahaha..

Anyways, here is my rendition of Op 60 #19:

https://soundcloud.com/philosopherguy-1/sor-op-60-19

Feel free to comment on it and offer suggestions. I added a touch of reverb to bring it to life a little.

Martin
Welcome to the "crowd", Philosopherguy :D. And as of being nervous in front of a micro, you are not alone, I can assure you. :lol:. I listened to your rendition. It is quite nice, a pleasure to listen to - an excellent tone, an appropriate tempo and a good record (though I don't think the reverberation was necessary, you clearly have an excellent instrument). I just have two small observations: I think I'm listening to a note in measure 21 which I cannot identify in the score (it may be only an impression but, please, check) and try to improve the acciaccatura in measure 10.

With this first rendition of yours, Philosopherguy, you gained an entry in the table of posted records :D, which, then, becomes as follows:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 30Jan18.png
Hi, Martin:

I checked again your rendition and I would like to withdraw my first observation in my post above concerning an "unidentified" note in measure 21... :oops:. The notes are all right, my mistake... and my apologies :). Now, for sure you have other pieces of Sor's Opus 60 "in your fingers"... are you going to post them as well? I hope so.

Regards,

Jorge
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:44 pm

Chariot0 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm
Here is my rendition (finally) of #5.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-ramirez-24/sor-op-60-nr-5
Nicely done, Roger, a nice tone, a right tempo, a pleasure to listen and... the whole thing in one take only? Amazing!! To the #6, then... :D.

With this rendition, there is one more notch in your line in the table of posted records:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 30Jan18.png
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:15 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:44 pm
Chariot0 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm
Here is my rendition (finally) of #5.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-ramirez-24/sor-op-60-nr-5
Nicely done, Roger, a nice tone, a right tempo, a pleasure to listen and... the whole thing in one take only? Amazing!! To the #6, then... :D.

With this rendition, there is one more notch in your line in the table of posted records:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 30Jan18.png
Yeah 1 take. I've been trying to do that for at least a week but haven't had the chance to really put the effort into it until the last few days and I finally got it today. In regards to getting it in one take. One thing that really helps me is to not stop when I make a mistake. I perform regularly so stopping mid-piece is a disaster. Once I know a piece, I won't stop for any mistakes if the intention is to play it from beginning to end.

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:49 am

My day job (Human Resources and Regulatory Compliance Management) is very challenging these days, so I am coming home a mental train-wreck and with no desire to do much computer surfing. Which is good; I can dedicate more time to playing my guitars.

Here is the last of the easy (easier? easy-ish?) works, the jaunty #15 in E major. I had the most trouble, surprisingly, in the arpeggiated chords. So many decades of folk song playing caused my right hand to want to play what it wanted, versus what Sor wrote. I also added some slurs to the middle F# section, it seems to make it flow easier. My wife says she likes this one.

[media]https://youtu.be/WmT6vBUAUeI[/media]

Same guitar, the Greg Brandt 1983. Different shirt, though!

Now, I stand at the foot of the Alps, the Matterhorn of #16 looming in front of me. Likely I have somewhat psyched myself out too much over this next one, what with the whole "Gina Lollobrigida" bit for the seven-note slur. As you all have recognized by now, my recordings are single-take efforts without any editing or patching of various attempts. All-or-nothing. (Why? Because playing guitar is hard enough, without having to learn to edit and mix audio files!) So I will need to take extra time to not ingrain sloppy habits here. Ideally #16 will be easier than it seems. Number 17 doesn't look so friendly, either. It's that slur Lesson in b minor coming up, #20, which has me most concerned..... Well, nothing to be done for it but march on, march on.
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Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:52 am

Nice David!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:28 pm

Yes, very nice indeed, David. It took me ages to put the fast notes of the #15 in my fingers and you did it in no time. Amazing... :D. To the #16, then. It is not an insurmountable mountain, really, it just has the Gina Lollobrigida 7 notes slur. And, by the way, editing an audio file is not that difficult. A video file is much more difficult. I did it already in the past but the only thing I did was to cut out the beginning and end of a one take record. I imagine that if you want to edit a video file you need to have two video cameras facing the player from different angles so that if you make a mistake you can start the other camera from a point before the mistake and then mix the two audio/video streams, fading away the first stream and replacing it progressively by the second one. You could also change the camera in an abrupt way, starting before the point of the mistake. But I never tried it...

With this new rendition, the table of posted records is now:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 31Jan18.png
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:00 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:28 pm
It is not an insurmountable mountain, really, it just has the Gina Lollobrigida 7 notes slur.
The Matterhorn is not insurmountable, either. Just quite challenging. I've spent a good amount of time last night trying to drill the sound of 7 notes into my ear. Once I can HEAR it consistently, then playing it is simple. Moreover, it must be played effortlessly, an insouciant bit of filigree but played with utter precision. The real difficultly seems to be landing cleanly on the beat for the F#/A coming immediately after the slur.

"Gina Lollobrigida"? Or "Look, a hippopotamus!"? Both are seven pulses, but provide completely opposite mental imagery. :lol:

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:28 pm
And, by the way, editing an audio file is not that difficult. A video file is much more difficult. I did it already in the past but the only thing I did was to cut out the beginning and end of a one take record.
Yes, in that context I agree that I do "edit" my videos by trimming the beginning and ending bits (of turning the camcorder on/off), and then I add the titles. But no mid-piece editing. And then trying to sync a remote audio file to a video.....!!! No thanks.
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:01 am

Dear Friends:

One more month went by and it is time to publish some statistical data concerning our participation in this thread for this past month.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Jan_2018.png

This past month, three more Forum members posted in this thread - rapvich, Mark Clifton-Gaultier
and soltirefa - whom I encourage to keep visiting us and posting their valuable opinions. As usual, those with zero posts, posted sometime in the past but not in December. Nevertheless, their names will be kept in the graph so that we all know whom ever participated in this Topic.

Also this past January, thirteen new records of Sor's Opus 60 pieces were posted (thanks, David :D), which compares well with more recent months, as you can see in the following graphic. Repeated records of the same piece are not accounted for.

Monthly Posted Records, Dec17-Dec18.png

The graphic that follows present the daily ramp up of posts and views for the last month. Lots of activities, indeed.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread, posts and views - Jan_2018.png

Finally, the next graphic depicts the total number of monthly posts and views in this Topic since Dec 2017.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Montlhy Posts & Views_Dec17-Jan18.png

Clearly, it's Winter time, quite cold this year, and again, Forum Members seems to prefer to stay inside playing their guitar and roaming this thread :D. I thank you all for your support to this Project.

Jorge
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:28 pm

hi Dave,

well done,
when listening to your playing the arpeggios, i assume you are not planting your fingers right?
what is your thought about planting? would be interesting to have your opinion.

regards,
joannes

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:57 pm

Henny wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:28 pm
hi Dave,

well done,
when listening to your playing the arpeggios, i assume you are not planting your fingers right?
what is your thought about planting? would be interesting to have your opinion.

regards,
joannes
I started off playing 1960s/70s folk music, and developed my fundamental fingerpicking skills in that way. So I never really learned to use a "planting" method. I understand the concepts behind it, but it's not an approach I utilize myself.
David Norton
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:22 pm

My first rendition of Sor's Opus 60 #19 had one missing note - the third G in the bass line of measure 5 during the second repeat - and there was also an highly audible, and quite irritating, buzzing in the pedal notes of the second section, specially the E bass. As promised, I prepared a second rendition where the notes are all there (I think :)) and the buzzing is not so noticeable - but it is still there and I have no idea how can I get rid of it completely :?.

As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used, however, was another one, my recently acquired and repaired/adjusted Kuniharu Nobe #8 from 1972 (45 years old, a real Japanese vintage guitar :D, but with an excellent sound and a pleasure to play with), also fitted with D'Addario EJ46FF Pro-Arte Carbon, Dynacore Basses High Tension strings (just 11 days old). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below.
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #19_data (V2).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #19 (V2).mp3

Comments, if any, are most welcome.
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:30 pm

Here we are: the rather difficult #16.

I spent a large amount of time JUST on measure 46 alone. Left hand slurs have never been a strong point for me, there's some sort of physiology in one of the joints of my small finger that prohibits silky-smooth movement, and always has. 4-to-2 slurs are especially bad, and I try to use 4-to-1 when possible. I can't claim this as "the best Sor 60-16" in existence, but it's passable enough to post. I don't think it will get measurably better for quite some time.



Different guitar this time: another Kenny Hill, this one a 640mm cedar/Indian "Rodriguez" model from 2008. Probably the most powerful guitar I own, followed closely by the Hill "Madrid" which I've used in other videos in this series.
Last edited by David Norton on Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
David Norton
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Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi David,

yes, rather difficult. from nr 16 it gets more difficult in all aspects
Not only the 32th notes, but also the phrasing and musical approach.
The way you played measure 46 is a good approach, it can be played slower for the time being, as we progress we can do it quicker.
what i miss however is a clear phrasing which makes now the piece sound too monotonous.
we all are working on improvements and i hope my comments helps you in one way or another.

regards,
Henny

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