D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
bjolester
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:02 pm
Location: Trondheim, Norway

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by bjolester » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Souldier: Thank you for sharing your DIY humidifier solution! It is interesting to see that one can find alternative solutions to soundhole humidifiers than D'Addario, Oasis and similar products.
2016 Yamaha GC32C
1976 Ibanez Howard Roberts archtop jazzguitar

SteveL123
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:43 pm

I bought and used my first Humidipaks April 2017. I weighed them and the paks were 69 grams ea. new. I weighed them again yesterday and the lightest one was 48 grams. So I put one Pak in a Pickling jar with a good air tight seal with a 1/4" of distilled water, cut up a plastic throwaway cup as a shelf to keep the Humidipak dry and placed jar on top of a radiator by a sunny window. I weighed the Pak again this morning and it gained 4 grams in 12 hours!

Is this weight gain going to be linear or will it slow down? In your experience , will it eventually gain its full (new) weight of 69 grams and how will that usually take?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

JohnB
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:17 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:42 pm

Steve, when I have weighed new packs they have usually been somewhere around 72 gm.

I recharge mine by putting them in a sealed container with a layer of water and the packs suspended above the water (not in contact with it). I usually recharge the packs well before they dry out, when they at around 63gm. At a normal household temperature the packs will regain their original weight over approx 3 days.

I believe that the most vulnerable part of the packs is their outer membrane and there must be some wear and tear on the sound hole pack membranes as they are regularly inserted and removed - so I replace the packs with new after, say, 3 months if they are in a guitar that has regular use.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

SteveL123
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:06 pm

JohnB,

You're right. I looked back at my records and the 69 gram weight was after 1 month's use. I haven't tested the outer bag to see if it is water tight have you? I am going to fill one with water and see if any seeps out of the seams. I don't like the Humidipaks constant in/out of the sound hole which could scuff/weaken it and have been experimenting with placing it elsewhere.

PS, my humidpak, while not suspended, is not in contact (it may look that way in the pic) with the water. It is laying horizontally approx 1.5" above the water.

pps, just filled an outer bag with water and it is seam sealed and did not leak. It should protect from a leaking Humidipak if it is not laying on it's side.

JohnB
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:17 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:36 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:06 pm
I don't like the Humidipaks constant in/out of the sound hole which could scuff/weaken it and have been experimenting with placing it elsewhere.
I know the feeling. The problem with my guitars is that the packs (and fabric "envelopes") are slightly too wide for the sound holes, so they have to be scrunched up a little to slip them in. At least one person here has said they just lay the dual pack on top of the guitar but I can't see how that can humidify all parts of the "box" (especially the back) as effectively as having them draped inside the sound hole - so I continue to carefully "scrunch".
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

User avatar
ameriken
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:58 pm
Location: Westminster, Co USA

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by ameriken » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:45 pm

Fatigue on the packaging is also my fear. I like the concept of the Humidipak's but after reading the puncture warnings from strings or other items, it made me nervous about squishing them through the strings and sound hole and removing them every time I play. I'm also thinking about laying them across the strings. Even if the pack is not in the hole itself I guess what matters is the humidity level inside the entire case.

The other thing that bothers me is the repeated scuffing of the rim of the sound hole with the outer sack. Once or twice is not going to scuff it, it's the repetition over a long period of time that concerns me.
Amalio Burguet 1A Spruce
Takamine C-132S

SteveL123
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:09 pm

Has anyone tried this humidification/ duhumidification system called MusicSorb that does not require placing in the sound hole?

Copied below description from Stringsbymail's site:

"The Music Sorb Guitar Pack contains six 30-gram units for your guitar (a total of 180 grams or 0.4 lbs).

The Guitar Pack outer cover is re-sealable (Ziploc style) so you may, for example, use fewer packets in your instrument case in less extreme humidity conditions and then seal the rest in the pack and use the remaining units a year later. Normally, you will use the whole Music Sorb Guitar Pack to protect your guitar and become less dependent on guessing your surrounding humidity extremes. In dry geographic areas, we strongly suggest that you read about preconditioning the units.

Music Sorb is an ideal humidity control solution because you place it in your instrument case and that’s it. It doesn't need to be dipped, plugged in, or hung in a special position. You can concentrate on more important things. Just place it in your instrument case and forget it for a year.

Music Sorb has a minimum life expectancy of one year at which time it may need to be replaced depending on how hard it has worked to maintain the right humidity. (Like a rechargeable battery, it wears down. But if you have been good at keeping your case closed, it may last past a year.)

Music Sorb humidity control units “adsorb” (not “absorb”) moisture out of the air when the humidity is above 50%RH and “desorb” that same moisture when the humidity is below 50%RH. It will, thus, maintain the right humidity range of 40% RH to 60% RH in your instrument case.

Music Sorb comes in three sizes: Guitar Pack, Violin/Viola Pack, and Cello Pack. For string bass, you use one violin pack and one cello pack.

Music Sorb:
Is not a desiccant
Controls humidity in your instrument case
Adsorbs when humidity is above 50%RH
Desorbs when humidity is below 50%RH
Is inert
Is not expensive
Is all natural
Lasts minimum one year
Place Music Sorb pouches in your instrument case. Keep the case closed except to remove or replace your instrument. If you live in an area with humidity below 40% RH when you open the package, you will need to pre-condition the Music Sorb units so that they have enough moisture to begin their hard work.

Music Sorb is completely safe and inert. Direct contact will not harm the instrument. If you have further questions, you will find many answers here."

celestemcc
Posts: 916
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by celestemcc » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:15 am

I use the Boveda humidifiers and like them very much. No problem using them and I find the pouches are quite protective, no damage from the strings.
2015 Connor spruce/Indian rosewood
1978 Ramirez 1a cedar

User avatar
petermc61
Posts: 6392
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:11 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by petermc61 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:34 am

I have used Music Sorb for one or two instruments. Seemed OK. I like the cost-time trade off I get with the D’Addario product which is probably why I use them more.

These comments should probably be read in light of my specific circumstances - Sydney is typically medium humidity, sometimes high, and rarely low. Packs last a long long time. I also have quite a few instruments.

Francisco
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by Francisco » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:39 am

I use humidity packs but stopped putting them in the soundhole because it felt cumbersome. Some alternatives are drilling a couple of large holes in the compartment to store strings and things, and placing a few pouches with packets there. The humidity will find its way in the rest of the case for sure. You can also place pouches between the strings and the soundboard (in the space between the rosette and the saddle).
In any case, with extreme northern weather as in Canada or Norway, where it can get very, very dry inside houses, you should not rely exclusively on these things. From november through march we keep our 3 guitars in one room where the humidity is strictly controled, with a dedicated room humidifier and at least 2 hygrometers (instruments to measure relative humidity are notoriously imprecise and almost always disagree with each other). Don’t assume that just because the humidifying packets stay soft for a very long time, they keep releasing humidity. This may not always be true.
2014 Yamaha GC42S, Akio Naniki

User avatar
cedartop
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:56 pm
Location: Mississippi

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by cedartop » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:28 am

I received a new guitar from Dake Traphagen a couple of months ago which had the D'Addario system with it. I called him and asked him about it. He said it works well and, since I live in the south which has high humidity a lot, I was interested in the system's ability to remove moisture from the air. Dake said that since it is designed for larger acoustic guitars rather than classical, NOT to hang it in the sound hole. Put one bag where the head goes and put one in the accessory box. I have been using it since I got it, with humidity changes in the house moving as much as 40% in a day on a few occasions. I have put a hygrometer in my case to test numerous times and the system does appear to keep humidity in the case right at 50%. You do have to "season" your case if you have a wooden case - check the directions or the following website for more information (who makes the system for D'Addario, but does not sell it themselves):

https://bovedainc.com/store/music-wood-instruments/
2011 Traphagen Cedar Doubletop
2017 Traphagen Spruce Doubletop

JohnB
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:17 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:36 pm

cedartop wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:28 am
Put one bag where the head goes and put one in the accessory box.
I use the Boveda guitar saddlebags, though usually with the D'Addario packs. I've thought about putting packs in the accessory box but I can't see how that would be effective unless I removed the lid to the accessory compartment - and even then it is likely that the effectiveness of the humidification/de-humidification will be less further away from the heel of the instrument, unless the case is air-tight (and most guitar cases aren't).

I've been using the packs in the soundhole for some years without mishap - but I am very careful when I insert the

I'm thinking about doing a test of the accessory box method - putting a logging hygrometer within the body of the guitar and then logging the effects over several days as the ambient humidity levels fluctuate. I can then compare it with a similar test I did with the packs in the soundhole.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

Dave Stott
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:24 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by Dave Stott » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm

I place a D'ADDARIO double pouch in the head stock area in my cases & an Oasis humidifier in the sound hole.

It keeps my guitars well humidified.

Pouches stay in my cases 365 days a year. Using them to help absorb humidity during the summer months seems to extend their life. Pouches last about 18 months before they need to be recharged
2015 Cordoba GK Pro Negra
2017 Cordoba Orchestra 12 Cedar
2003 Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe
2015 Simon & Patrick Showcase CH HG

Francisco
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by Francisco » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:29 am

JohnB wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:36 pm
cedartop wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:28 am
Put one bag where the head goes and put one in the accessory box.
I use the Boveda guitar saddlebags, though usually with the D'Addario packs. I've thought about putting packs in the accessory box but I can't see how that would be effective unless I removed the lid to the accessory compartment [...]
You don't need to remove the entire lid of the accessory compartment. It is enough to drill 2 or 3 holes on the lid and the excess humidity in it will come out to the rest of the case until it evens out.
2014 Yamaha GC42S, Akio Naniki

JohnB
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:17 pm
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: D'Addario Two-Way Humidification System question

Post by JohnB » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:59 am

Francisco wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:29 am
You don't need to remove the entire lid of the accessory compartment. It is enough to drill 2 or 3 holes on the lid and the excess humidity in it will come out to the rest of the case until it evens out.
I am happy to be proved wrong but I am not totally convinced that the RH will fully even out in cases that aren't air tight (and most cases are not air tight) i.e. I suspect that there will be something of a RH gradient, getting lower further away from the packs.

Over the next few days I will do a test, with a logging hygrometer inside the body.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

Return to “Public Space”