Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
JohnB
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by JohnB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:56 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:15 pm
that is what Richter was talking - that the whole thing have to be in the darkness, both stage and audience, so nothing will take away sound experience.
People talking about "listening" the music at concert, while in reality they watching the SHOW. AND WATCHING usually is more important for them than listening really... that is where most of "electricity" comes...
from seeing musicians. To the degree that sometimes they may play nothing, but move around dance, do theater - and "listeners" will be "electrified" even more than they actually listen...
I guess there are 2 separate things:
1.Music itself as audio, sonic waves
2. Show, Theater, Performance as visual stimulation...
This visual part, and our personal presence , which could have nothing to do with audio, sonic waves is somehow described as a MUSIC experience...
yet is it Music really?
Theater is great! Show is great!
But what is MUSIC itself if not audio, sonic waves?
Sorry Andrei but I totally disagree with you, at least as far as the many classical concerts and recitals (mostly non-guitar) I have attended are concerned. The only musician who did anything remotely like "theatre" was Mitsuko Uchida and that was merely the beautiful Japanese inspired dresses she wears.

The "electricity" is the energy generated by the audience (of anything from a few hundred to a few thousand) concentrating on the music and being immersed in it. There is very little "show" in a piano recital (for example), especially when you are in the middle of the hall - though the pianist does act as a focus of one's visual concentration. I've been incredibly fortunate in being at remarkable concerts and recitals where I've emerged afterwards feeling that world has changed - not because of the "show" but because of the power and depth of the performance.

By the way, I once almost had the Richter experience. I had tickets for a recital at the Royal Festival Hall in London. Drove the 125 miles to London only to be told that he had cancelled.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

JohnB
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by JohnB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:11 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:00 pm
could you go and listen Glenn Gould? Richter? Paco?
Who will play like them?
who will replace them as listening experience?
is it "pale experience" to listen recording of great artist music by great artist instead of same repertoire by another technically perfect but emotionally cold player?
if live concerts of great artists are not available to you - then you would not listen music at all?

we are very different.. we have different circumstances, we all often live in different places, both physically and spiritually...
it is obvious that we could not have "same" views..
but...
simply rationally talking -
could you go and listen Glenn Gould? Richter?
Who will play like them?
You mistake my meaning.

Of course recordings are extremely valuable. They enable us to hear musicians who we would never otherwise have the opportunity to listen to and they enable us to be familiar with an enormous range of music - far more than we would ever be able to experience in a live performance.

But, for me, the ideal is to be present in the hall (or venue) when a musician or a group of musicians performs the magic of creating the music there and then - and there is something magical, something very special, about that experience. It is a totally different to listening to a CD in one's living room.

[Apologies to everyone for going off topic ... I'll shut up now.]
Last edited by JohnB on Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso", Christopher Dean 2018, Ana Maria Espinosa 2014

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lagartija
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by lagartija » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:15 pm

I find that I often close my eyes while listening to a live performance. It allows me to concentrate more fully on what I am hearing.
When the sun shines, bask.
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Classical Guitar forever!

AndreiKrylov

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:18 pm

JohnB wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:56 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:15 pm
that is what Richter was talking - that the whole thing have to be in the darkness, both stage and audience, so nothing will take away sound experience.
People talking about "listening" the music at concert, while in reality they watching the SHOW. AND WATCHING usually is more important for them than listening really... that is where most of "electricity" comes...
from seeing musicians. To the degree that sometimes they may play nothing, but move around dance, do theater - and "listeners" will be "electrified" even more than they actually listen...
I guess there are 2 separate things:
1.Music itself as audio, sonic waves
2. Show, Theater, Performance as visual stimulation...
This visual part, and our personal presence , which could have nothing to do with audio, sonic waves is somehow described as a MUSIC experience...
yet is it Music really?
Theater is great! Show is great!
But what is MUSIC itself if not audio, sonic waves?
Sorry Andrei but I totally disagree with you, at least as far as the many classical concerts and recitals (mostly non-guitar) I have attended are concerned. The only musician who did anything remotely like "theatre" was Mitsuko Uchida and that was merely the beautiful Japanese inspired dresses she wears.

The "electricity" is the energy generated by the audience (of anything from a few hundred to a few thousand) concentrating on the music and being immersed in it. There is very little "show" in a piano recital (for example), especially when you are in the middle of the hall - though the pianist does act as a focus of one's visual concentration. I've been incredibly fortunate in being at remarkable concerts and recitals where I've emerged afterwards feeling that world has changed - not because of the "show" but because of the power and depth of the performance.

By the way, I once almost had the Richter experience. I had tickets for a recital at the Royal Festival Hall in London. Drove the 125 miles to London only to be told that he had cancelled.
I have nothing against performance or show.
It is a great experience by itself!
What am I asked in my last post in particular is just - will it be "electric" if concert will happen in complete darkness and only thing which will be present will be sound?
I doubt that.
I almost sure that visual aspects of performance and ritual like "atmosphere" of the whole thing is what make it electric. If you do not like "show" we could change it to theater or ritual - where sound is important aspect, but is it most important one....
and if it is - then why can't we just listen it without any distraction?
Personally I like to watch different performers - it is fun!
I like to perform myself - it is fun!
But ... I like just to listen music alone...and it is even deeper spiritual experience for me....
Would n't you just listen Richter recordings?
And you would be never "electrified" by it?
Would you be more "electrified" by "average" performer on piano who will play live for you in concert hall?

Jeffrey Armbruster

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:27 pm

I think that live performances bring out the high wire act aspect of the whole thing. People realize what a remarkable accomplishment it is to play music at that level (or sustain a dramatic performance). It's not because it's 'showy'; it just underscores the non-everydayness of what's occurring. A great concert is something exceptional. Playing a cd of that same concert is more mundane, somehow. Abstract maybe. I'm still wowed by Berta Rojas playing Barrios on a cd. I imagine her skill, etc. Seeing her live would be more exciting, somehow, even if she didn't match the level of performance that she does on the cd.

jmfeyzi
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by jmfeyzi » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:40 am

I also do not like/want to perform - for me, practicing is meditative and brings me joy. The mere thought of performing stresses me out!

Smudger5150
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Smudger5150 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:58 pm

This topic makes me think about watching musicians/groups in any genre in concert compared with listening to them on CD. I guess some prefer the craft of creating a piece of work in the studio and others may prefer the live experience.
In the non-classical world, where pop/rock/etc groups/artists create an album in the studio it seems like a lot of the creation process involves the studio equipment (multi-tracking, mixing etc) and the producer's input insomuch that the concert seems almost like a 'cut down' version of the album. Which is why many people complain the live shows never capture the piece of music they know and love on the CD/Lp etc.
But comparing this with CG, ignoring the creation of the music (as it's usually already prepared on sheet music) then it seems to be much more of a pure 'performance'. And therefore, is geared, to my mind, towards being able to perform the music live.

So from my perspective, I aspire to be able to perform this music 'live' so to speak and couldn't envisage being completely satisfied with only playing for myself.
But from the limited performances I have done at folk and open mic nights, I found that there is a distinction, for me, between the 'worry/stress/whatever' of leading up to and doing the performance and the exhilaration/relief of having completed it.
And put simply, the more prepared I am to perform, the more successful I will be and therefore, I will enjoy the performance more.

But, the beauty of playing an instrument, especially the guitar, is that you can enjoy the process and play for yourself as well.

A minor point - one might argue that the topic should be 'Does anyone else NOT like performing for others?' seeing as so many people get pleasure from practising and performing for themselves.
"Music washes away the dust of every day life." Art Blakey

"If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it." Louis Armstrong

razz
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by razz » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:27 pm

Performing is a separate skill that you need to practice. You can be completely happy playing music for yourself. If you want to share your music you need to develop performance skills.
As for me, I enjoy performing. I find it challenging because I don't perform very often. But if the opportunity to perform never comes to me again, I will still play and enjoy.

CJguitar
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by CJguitar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:27 pm

I recently gave a one hour performance this past Wednesday. The experience leading up to it was excruciating; I had trouble sleeping, eating made me feel awful and my depression/anxiety was overwhelming. There were many times where I wanted to call the concert organizer and tell him that I just couldn't do it. But I resisted that idea, mainly because I didn't want to feel like I'd let him down.

The concert day inevitably arrived and it was the easiest concert I'd ever done. I think it was because it was my first concert out of school and I was able to express myself in front of a nonjudgmental audience. I didn't have to worry about someone criticizing my Bach, or judges marking me down for mistakes, or teachers assessing my skills for a grade; there was total expressive freedom.

However, even though I got an extremely positive response from the audience, I don't know if the pain leading up to it was worth it. It kind of felt like I was sacrificing my happiness and well-being for other people and I'm not sure that's what I want to keep doing with my life.

Todd Tipton
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Todd Tipton » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:25 pm

I am reminded of Shearer's words on sharing with others. Experience has taught me that, while it may be true for many, it certainly isn't true for everyone. Some people have no desire to share their music with others. As teachers, I think we have to allow for that possibility and that we have to respect that. "But how to you know? Maybe it is performance anxiety?" It doesn't matter in my opinion.

At a minimum, there are regular occasions in the lesson where it is a performance. (My definition of performing is playing anytime it matters). Once a student has started maintaining even the smallest amount of old repertoire, practicing performing (how to deal with errors, etc) needs to become a regular part of the lesson. In simple words, the student needs to pretend to perform those pieces so that they can begin practicing how to handle mistakes.

Performing may be something some would do if they had good guidance in performance anxiety and learning how to practice performing. On the other hand, performance is something that some people want to have no part of: period. As teachers, I don't think we need to answer the "how do you know" question. Nor do we need to push them to play for their friends, at guitar cafes, or anything like that. Respect their wishes. Teach them guitar. Teach them how to perform. After all, they have to at least occasionally perform in the lesson. If there is some interest in performing, it will come out only after repeated success in the lessons. If there is never any interest, respect it. My two cents.
Dr. Todd Tipton, Noda Guitar Studio
Charlotte, NC, USA (available via Skype)

AndreiKrylov

Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:34 pm

all life is a performance :)
therefore who do not like performing do not like.....?
:)

Gustavosamor
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by Gustavosamor » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:06 pm

I understand what you are feeling...I'm still struggling with my anxiety when I'm performing to someone else. The good news is that you start getting more and more comfortable when you do it, and at the same time you can measure yourself if the piece needs more practice. Berta Rojas said one time in a master class that I was attending that she did not consider a piece was completely developed until she played an "X" number of times in front of an audience (I think she actually said 100 times), because every time you play for new people you discover new things you didn't know before, and also because the audience can respond in one way or another depending on you, and how you play the piece(s).

steampick
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by steampick » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:35 pm

All life is performance, but with many buffering conditions built in to offset the stresses (we play games, we have our social conventions, we have time to ourselves). On a stage, those are mostly gone, and you are lit up and magnified, so it's quite a startling thing. I find some light-hearted banter with the audience goes a very long way as the audience is also a bit nervous for you, so it helps them relax and enjoy things a bit better.

mikey445
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by mikey445 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:08 pm

I'll be playing at my daughter's wedding Thursday after not having played in front of anyone for probably 20 years. I'm hopeful having your daddy play is more important than the notes he can muster up in the moment. I'm practicing relentlessly but setting the bar a bit lower than perfection seems to be helping with the nerves.

zenking
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Re: Does anyone else NOT like performing?

Post by zenking » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:53 pm

When sitting on the couch by myself, my playing can be excellent.

Once I'm playing for someone else, not so good. I seem to have stage fright.

This usually has to do with a lack of preparation. When I recently played for a couple of siblings, I had been practicing a lot and this time was the best I had ever played in front of someone else. It was really easy and so I think that confidence will come with practice.

zenking

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