Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:22 pm

Unfortunately, I've never enjoyed using my iPod, and it never really worked properly either - when it was 90% full it would hang regularly mid-track. So I kept it 10% full for a long time, then stopped using it altogether. But part of that is because it gave me spatial orientation/awareness problems if I was out commuting.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

larryguitar
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by larryguitar » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:46 pm

Maybe the question should be, who still has their turntable up and running? ;-) I have a Michell Gyro Dec that still works great.

I don't buy a lot of vinyl now because I don't have a lot of room, but I have one cabinet full of vinyl records.

Some things never made it onto CD, like Segovia's The Intimate Guitar.

With a good record cleaner, you can buy some cheap vinyl records, clean them up, and get some great music.

Will
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by Will » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:37 am

I never completely stopped, especially so when I heard some verystridenticds and found the half speed mastering process with vinlyl gave great results.

Zen
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by Zen » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 am

If you think vinyl is noisy you haven’t heard a well recorded, undamaged record on a properly designed and set up turntable (I.e., one with minimal bearing play, effective suspension or other vibration control, noiseless AC, quality cartridge, and wall mounting). While well recorded digital will more than satisfy most listeners, I have not founded it to be a match for the best vinyl. I have a few mono (yes mono) Jazz records from the 50’s (Columbia 6 eye), as well as recent reissues (such as Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs) that sound superior to any digital source I’ve heard. This is not nostalgia, as I don’t really care what the source is if it sounds good. Of course, none of it sounds as good as live music.
The time between the notes relates the color to the scenes.

ddray
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by ddray » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:04 am

Zen wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 am
If you think vinyl is noisy you haven’t heard a well recorded, undamaged record on a properly designed and set up turntable (I.e., one with minimal bearing play, effective suspension or other vibration control, noiseless AC, quality cartridge, and wall mounting). While well recorded digital will more than satisfy most listeners, I have not founded it to be a match for the best vinyl. ...
What you're saying though is that you need high-end, pristine equipment and a pristine disc to keep up with humdrum digital. That's why vinyl's an endangered species. Not everyone is willing or able to sink loads of money into stereo equipment.

larryguitar
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by larryguitar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:11 am

ddray wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:04 am
Zen wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 am
If you think vinyl is noisy you haven’t heard a well recorded, undamaged record on a properly designed and set up turntable (I.e., one with minimal bearing play, effective suspension or other vibration control, noiseless AC, quality cartridge, and wall mounting). While well recorded digital will more than satisfy most listeners, I have not founded it to be a match for the best vinyl. ...
What you're saying though is that you need high-end, pristine equipment and a pristine disc to keep up with humdrum digital. That's why vinyl's an endangered species. Not everyone is willing or able to sink loads of money into stereo equipment.
I don’t think he meant that at all. Having good equipment and clean records improves the experience but vinyl can sound good even on modest equipment.

I think vinyl was the only format that had increased sales last year. I know that was the case a few years ago. There are millions of used records available and people are pressing new ones.

I like all kinds of sources, including FM tuners. My McIntosh MR-78 still sounds wonderful and I think it was built in the 70s.

Today, I set up a ROON server connected to Tidal. With that, my eighteen hundred lossless CDs can be used to find thousands of more CDs to play, all of it streamed seamlessly to my stereo. That, plus the NAXOS music library means that I have access to an incredible amount of music.

I suppose I am disappointed in how few people build a high quality two channel system. I just can’t listen to headphones all the time. My system has brought me many hours of happiness.

It is possible to build a good quality two channel system for relatively little money. There is a lot of good used stereo equipment for sale, at low prices. The best quality gear has stood the test of time, and has avoided being throw into the landfill.

ddray
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by ddray » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:30 am

larryguitar wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:11 am
ddray wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:04 am
Zen wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 am
If you think vinyl is noisy you haven’t heard a well recorded, undamaged record on a properly designed and set up turntable (I.e., one with minimal bearing play, effective suspension or other vibration control, noiseless AC, quality cartridge, and wall mounting). While well recorded digital will more than satisfy most listeners, I have not founded it to be a match for the best vinyl. ...
What you're saying though is that you need high-end, pristine equipment and a pristine disc to keep up with humdrum digital. That's why vinyl's an endangered species. Not everyone is willing or able to sink loads of money into stereo equipment.
I don’t think he meant that at all. Having good equipment and clean records improves the experience but vinyl can sound good even on modest equipment.
...
But it would seem that vinyl + modest equipment = to heck with it, I'm going digital. Also what's "modest" to you might be out of reach for someone else...in the same way that to many Delcampers a "modestly-priced guitar" is in the neighborhood of $3k. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if vinyl now is selling like hotcakes. I think one of the reasons is there's not a whole lot going on in the pop music world, and there's consequently a nostalgia kick.
Last edited by ddray on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

larryguitar
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by larryguitar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:42 am

ddray wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:30 am
larryguitar wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:11 am
ddray wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:04 am

What you're saying though is that you need high-end, pristine equipment and a pristine disc to keep up with humdrum digital. That's why vinyl's an endangered species. Not everyone is willing or able to sink loads of money into stereo equipment.
I don’t think he meant that at all. Having good equipment and clean records improves the experience but vinyl can sound good even on modest equipment.
...
But it would seem that vinyl + modest equipment = to heck with it, I'm going digital. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if vinyl now is selling like hotcakes. I think one of the reasons is there's not a whole lot going on in the pop music world, and there's consequently a nostalgia kick.
Certainly some people embrace all digital for the reason you state. Still, looking at the prices of vinyl records over the last few years, I have seen them get more expensive, so demand is strong.

Nostalgia could be part of it. Look at the prices of old electric guitars and restored muscle cars. People try to buy back their youth, which is impossible, of course. Compared to those things, buying the vinyl records of your youth is downright cheap.

CliffK
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by CliffK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am

Vinyl has a growing market share albeit small say 5 percent. Streaming has brought music conveniently to consumers sparking interest and apparently thus has actually helped vinyl sales. Young people are buying vinyl and indie labels have a market.
See, for example

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... -streaming

Audio equipment, with electronics and sound engineering, is a fascinating hobby in itself but one doesnt need high end equipment to get pleasing sound. As a hobbyist, all the equipment I have collected over the years has been used and I assemble different systems for different rooms in the house and tinker. Really high end equipment is out of my budget but I enjoy quality products from Thorens, Revox, MacIntosh, Electrocompaniet, Rega, Tandberg, etc. If I want to seriously listen to a cd, or record a master, I use a Studer unit (admit that was spendy) I got from a commercial studio on the West Coast and use Sennheiser HD 25 headphones. I have some cassettes as well which sound fine to me at home or in the car.

Vinyl and even cassettes can sound very pleasing indeed, not to mention FM radio. Plus you can get into audio equipment as another hobby. For convenience, I have downloaded music to my Ipad and it sounds fine through my B&O ear buds.

There is a vast amount of quality used equipment out there and one can also build a modest new system at reasonable cost. Some second hand vendors actually clean their records on machines to prep them for sale and grade them as to condition. When going through the used bins you can closely inspect the record for scratches and blemishes.

Cheers.
Michael Thames 2010 It Spruce/BR
Rockbridge SJ cedar/mahagony 2007, cutaway, inlay

Altophile
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by Altophile » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:57 am

CliffK wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am
Vinyl has a growing market share albeit small say 5 percent. Streaming has brought music conveniently to consumers sparking interest and apparently thus has actually helped vinyl sales. Young people are buying vinyl and indie labels have a market.
See, for example

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... -streaming

Audio equipment, with electronics and sound engineering, is a fascinating hobby in itself but one doesnt need high end equipment to get pleasing sound. As a hobbyist, all the equipment I have collected over the years has been used and I assemble different systems for different rooms in the house and tinker. Really high end equipment is out of my budget but I enjoy quality products from Thorens, Revox, MacIntosh, Electrocompaniet, Rega, Tandberg, etc. If I want to seriously listen to a cd, or record a master, I use a Studer unit (admit that was spendy) I got from a commercial studio on the West Coast and use Sennheiser HD 25 headphones. I have some cassettes as well which sound fine to me at home or in the car.

Vinyl and even cassettes can sound very pleasing indeed, not to mention FM radio. Plus you can get into audio equipment as another hobby. For convenience, I have downloaded music to my Ipad and it sounds fine through my B&O ear buds.

There is a vast amount of quality used equipment out there and one can also build a modest new system at reasonable cost. Some second hand vendors actually clean their records on machines to prep them for sale and grade them as to condition. When going through the used bins you can closely inspect the record for scratches and blemishes.

Cheers.
A man after my own heart, i.e. a hobbiest audiophile on a beer gudget:-)

I've wanted a Rega Planer 3 for years, but I just refuse to spend that much money on a turntable, especially since it would necessitate that I upgrade other equipment to get the most out of it. For that sort of investment I could buy an Brahms or an Alto guitar, or both!

I did finally buy a pair of SPICA TC 60s, and have been enjoying the them a lot.

FYI, FIIO has a portable music player that supposedly sounds much better than an iPod. When my last iPod finally dies, like my second to last one did last month, then I'll probably either go with a smartphone rated for high-end audio, or a FIIO.

CliffK
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Location: Virginia

Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by CliffK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 pm

Altophile, for vinyl I think many would agree that you can set up a nice system on a budget with new or used equipment. Also, while used vinyl prices have risen some you can still find buys that are less expensive than new cds. Plus as has been said here not everything was transferred to the cd medium. It is true that old speakers might need a refoam and old electronics might need new caps and turntables need new catridges but that is part of the hobby aspect.

Plus its fun just to go through the bins. As a teen in the 60s, a buddy and I would take an afternoon and pour through the bins at Delmark Records in Chicago. Blues vinyl central plus jazz, so cool! They are still around in a different location run by the original owner, bless him. Got a bunch of NOS Chicago blues in cassettes on sale for a dollar each last year. They have vinyl too. I think with more young people getting interested in vinyl it is not just for old guys. I hope they discover that it is a really nice hobby.

Also there is the whole world of recording and sound engineering to learn about if you get interested in how live performance or studio sessions were done. Famous sound engineers, ways to mic, recording equipment. This is not to mention the actual process of creating masters and pressing the vinyl...all really fascinating if one is so inclined.

Enjoy the SPICAS, nice find!
Michael Thames 2010 It Spruce/BR
Rockbridge SJ cedar/mahagony 2007, cutaway, inlay

larryguitar
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Location: New York City

Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by larryguitar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:36 pm

Altophile wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:57 am
CliffK wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am
Vinyl has a growing market share albeit small say 5 percent. Streaming has brought music conveniently to consumers sparking interest and apparently thus has actually helped vinyl sales. Young people are buying vinyl and indie labels have a market.
See, for example

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... -streaming

Audio equipment, with electronics and sound engineering, is a fascinating hobby in itself but one doesnt need high end equipment to get pleasing sound. As a hobbyist, all the equipment I have collected over the years has been used and I assemble different systems for different rooms in the house and tinker. Really high end equipment is out of my budget but I enjoy quality products from Thorens, Revox, MacIntosh, Electrocompaniet, Rega, Tandberg, etc. If I want to seriously listen to a cd, or record a master, I use a Studer unit (admit that was spendy) I got from a commercial studio on the West Coast and use Sennheiser HD 25 headphones. I have some cassettes as well which sound fine to me at home or in the car.

Vinyl and even cassettes can sound very pleasing indeed, not to mention FM radio. Plus you can get into audio equipment as another hobby. For convenience, I have downloaded music to my Ipad and it sounds fine through my B&O ear buds.

There is a vast amount of quality used equipment out there and one can also build a modest new system at reasonable cost. Some second hand vendors actually clean their records on machines to prep them for sale and grade them as to condition. When going through the used bins you can closely inspect the record for scratches and blemishes.

Cheers.
A man after my own heart, i.e. a hobbiest audiophile on a beer gudget:-)

I've wanted a Rega Planer 3 for years, but I just refuse to spend that much money on a turntable, especially since it would necessitate that I upgrade other equipment to get the most out of it. For that sort of investment I could buy an Brahms or an Alto guitar, or both!

I did finally buy a pair of SPICA TC 60s, and have been enjoying the them a lot.

FYI, FIIO has a portable music player that supposedly sounds much better than an iPod. When my last iPod finally dies, like my second to last one did last month, then I'll probably either go with a smartphone rated for high-end audio, or a FIIO.
I started out on a beer budget and sold and upgraded gear over time to get to where I am now. I went though various bookshelf speakers and other designs, including some wacky spherical speakers from Gallo, for instance. Then, a number of years ago, I got a pair of Gryphon Cantata speakers from a guy who was converting his three car garage into a listening room! The Cantatas are designed for small apartments, they have an external Q controller that rolls off the bass energy in order to eliminate the booming you get with large speakers in a small space.

I rescued a hundred pound Class A amplifier from a pawn shop. I spent around $1500 to have it rebuilt and it has been performing flawlessly for over ten years. The trouble is that it will trip its thermal protection circuits in the summer and it requires two fans to cool it. Still, there is something to be said for the smoothness of Class A amplifiers, there is no crossover distortion, but they require huge heatsinks and huge transformers.

I haven't upgraded my system in years. I've been happy with a Michell Gyro Dec turntable, Accuphase CD player, and a MacIntosh tuner. Then, two weeks ago, I found a matching amp for the Gryphon Cantatas and I could not resist. It's rare to find such amps on the used market. After ten years, I think it is time to change my sound and replacing the main amplifier will certainly do that.

I am also looking into getting a better DAC than the one on the Accuphase CD player. Streaming services have made listening to music easy, and ROON is a wonderful music discovery tool.

Yes, it all takes money but even simple two channel systems sound better than headphones, generally speaking, and, with two channel systems you can move around your space while the music is playing and you can share the sound with your spouse. Some stereos can sound sublime.The result can never equal live music but it can be a wonderful thing in its own right.

If people want to find good gear, look for the site, audio gone. LOL.

I might suggest that people avoid buying the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh guitar and put some of that money into a high quality stereo system. ;-)

CliffK
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Location: Virginia

Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by CliffK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Larryguitar makes an excellent point to bear in mind that a live performance experience is different from listening to recorded sound of a live performance whether vinyl or not. Also, a live performance might well sound different to members of the audience depending on where you are sitting, the accoustics of the venue, whether there is sound reinforcement or not, etc.

For those considering vinyl, it may be best to approach that from a hobby standpoint. If you have digital already you can upgrade your cd player, transport, DAC plus speakers etc. and here again there can be a hobby aspect. There is a hobby area of serious FM tuners and I have several...Tandberg 3001A, Revox B760, and a nice little Creek for the guest room.

Specialized audio stores, not the big box folks, often have preowned equipment with good deals.

This website has a separate section for amplification and recording. As someone new to Delcamp I have taken a quick look and find there many well informed and helpful insights on the recording process on those threads, mics, mic placement, etc.
Michael Thames 2010 It Spruce/BR
Rockbridge SJ cedar/mahagony 2007, cutaway, inlay

Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:28 pm

Vinyl, tube amp, and paper cone speakers - best combination in the the known universe?

It is a trade off. I might even agree that systems built around vinyl can sound the best. But in my experience, it is very rare indeed to have the potential sonic deficiencies of vinyl systems eliminated. Digital sounds cold and stark? Maybe, but I'll take that over the nearly unavoidable deficiencies of vinyl based systems and/or the work and expense needed to minimize them. We used to say that you could get 10 "perfect" plays out of an LP before degradation occurred. No such degradation with digital recordings.

To answer the thread's topic: No. Not buying vinyl. Far too problematic regardless of potentially excellent quality for 10 plays.
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chiral3
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Re: Anyone started to buy vinyl again?

Post by chiral3 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:00 am

Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:28 pm
Far too problematic regardless of potentially excellent quality for 10 plays.
Vinyl doesn't degrade after 10 plays. Are you thinking of lacquers? Lacquers (what are used to create the stamps that are used to press vinyl) sound great. People will generally say that they wear out after about 10 listens. I've listened to laquers more times than that before they start to sound mushy. Vinyl, though, assuming the vertical tracking force of your tonearm is set to the cartridge's specs, shouldn't result in any issues for the reasonable life of the LP.
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