What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Adrian Allan
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:14 am

If you can get your head around avoiding those extra strings in the space of one day, you have done exceptionally well.
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

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joachim33
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by joachim33 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:52 am

RobMacKillop wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:27 am
I replaced the Aquila strings one to six with Savarez Red Card, hard tension, but tuned down a semitone, and the sound really blossomed, louder, and with a beautiful singing quality. I'll no doubt, as is my way, keep experimenting for a while, between string types and tensions. This is a very subjective area, or course. I'll see if I can make a video today, probably restricted to the first six strings as I haven't had time to explore the Yepes tuning yet.
A comment: Looking at the recently revised tension figures on Saverzez' website, Savarez Red Card (I assume you mean 520R) are actually quite low in tension. Total set tension is less than an EJ45 set.

Out of curiosity, what do you use for strings 7 to 10?

RobMacKillop
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:03 am

Thanks for the info. I've just made a video, but at a very low pitch of 392 - you might well ask why! I do this with all my guitars, make videos at different pitches, so I can look back on them, see what works, and what doesn't. I'm not a fan of 440, despite it being used by 99% of players. It was arrived at without the consultation of guitar players. I'll upload the video soon. Yes, it's definitely too low, and I'll be doing other videos at higher pitches in due course, but there are some qualities in it that I like.

As for the bass strings, I have the special Aranjuez low C. The other three must be from the Aquila set. I've not made a decision about them yet, as I haven't played them much.

RobMacKillop
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:31 am

Video: Music begins at 2'47" if you get bored with my mumbling.



Let me know what you think of it. I have more experimenting to do with strings and pitches. I am even entertaining the idea of using gut strings at some point. And, just in case you don't know, I play without nails. I did not get the instrument to play baroque music on, though might do some eventually. I'm more interested in the contemporary repertoire written for the instrument.

Altophile

Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by Altophile » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:43 am

RobMacKillop wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:31 am
Video:



Let me know what you think of it. I have more experimenting to do with strings and pitches. I am even entertaining the idea of using gut strings at some point. And, just in case you don't know, I play without nails. I did not get the instrument to play baroque music on, though might do some eventually. I'm more interested in the contemporary repertoire written for the instrument.

Beautiful guitar, very clear, round, attractive tones, etc., and excellent playing for a first-timer on a ten string! I heard that when Yepes auditioned his commissioned ten string for the first time, he fumbled like a beginniner, then looked up at the luthier and said something like: "What a wonderful mess I've gotten myself into!" I don't know if that's true, but it's certainly seems fitting;-)

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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:57 am

Thanks. Yes, I've read that comment from Yepes. Of course, he was playing far more difficult music than Lagrima, plus I'm used to lutes and theorbos. But it's the re-entrant nature of the lower strings that will do my head in, so to speak. We shall see.

The right-hand palm acts like a piano string dampener, which I find interesting. I have work to do on that to explore the subtleties it offers. I find the instrument intriguing.

Conall
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by Conall » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:20 am

Thanks for the video Rob.

It's difficult (on this lousy laptop) to hear the subtle resonances of the sympathetic strings. I presume as the player, these are very apparent to you?

The low tuning seems quite appropriate for the vihuela piece - more so than for Lagrima I'd say though that sounds well too.

Is your right pinkie always on the soundboard? Presumably this is lute technique - but did you always use this technique even as a conservatoire student of guitar? I imagine you adopted it later & if so what are the advantages over modern CG technique in your opinion?

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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:25 am

Too big a subject for this thread, Conall. Suffice to say I don't always use it on the six-string string guitar. Maybe the extra strings made me lapse into theorbo technique.

It would be nice if you could hear it on good-quality headphones or speakers...

Conall
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by Conall » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:29 am

Yes, will do that soon as I get to my speakers!

By the way I wasn't criticising your RH technique - just wondering about it!

RobMacKillop
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:32 am

I didn't think you were. No problem. I just don't want to derail this thread by talking about it. Cheers.

Richwilly
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by Richwilly » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:33 pm

It sounds super on my headphones, every note seems to generate a great wash of sympathetic resonance giving it tremendous sustain and presence. You must be very excited!
2009 Pablo Requena spruce
2013 David Rouse spruce 7 string
2016 David Rouse cedar

RobMacKillop
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:39 pm

Yes, and a little overawed. It's not completely under my control yet, but it's early days. Cheers.

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David Norton
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by David Norton » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:56 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:31 am

Let me know what you think of it. I have more experimenting to do with strings and pitches. I am even entertaining the idea of using gut strings at some point. And, just in case you don't know, I play without nails. I did not get the instrument to play baroque music on, though might do some eventually. I'm more interested in the contemporary repertoire written for the instrument.
I suspect the low 392 tension isn't "loading" the top sufficiently. A big problem I've seen with 10-strings (I've owned 6 or 7, of which only one was really a satisfactory instrument) is that the luthiers err on the side of caution and overbrace the top and bridge area. So they often need higher tension strings to maximize the output potential. On the other side, I had a Chinese-made 10-string some while back, and the bridge pulled off completely at normal pitch in under a week of ownership. So it's a dice roll in a way.
David Norton
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First person to complete the Delcamp "Let's Learn Sor's Opus 60" project

RobMacKillop
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:03 pm

Not sure what you're hearing, David, but it's projecting really strongly, one of the loudest guitars I've played. Since making the video I've tuned it up a semitone, and it's sounding wonderful.

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joachim33
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Re: What a relief! 10-string arrives in one piece!

Post by joachim33 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:15 pm

I sort of hear a similarity to the sound of the Yepes Solo CD set (I own it longer than you :P ). Quite a bit of bass tone and not so much high pitch. Part of that might be your 392 concert pitch and the strings being fresh on the guitar. If I were in your shoes I would give the present set more time to fully explore the stings, including their maturing, before swapping to something else.

Is it a cedar top or a spruce, could you remind me?

How do your tuners look like ? I learned recently that many 10 sting guitars have two sets of standard (6 - string) tuners. One of them butchered to operate the four central strings. This can be seen nicely on some pictures of Narciso Yepes which can be found on the internet.

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