Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Conall
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:26 am
Location: Scotland

Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by Conall » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:26 pm

One member says he tried Bach with decacorde tuning (normal EBGDA for strings 1-5, then descending basses by step GFEDC).

Has any other extended range guitarist tried this tuning?

The obvious pieces by Bach to use this tuning for would be the cello suites given that C is its lowest note. I use an 8 string with C & D as 8th & 7th and the suites works well on it - but I wonder would the decacorde be even better?

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:08 pm

Conall wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:26 pm
One member says he tried Bach with decacorde tuning (normal EBGDA for strings 1-5, then descending basses by step GFEDC).

Has any other extended range guitarist tried this tuning?

The obvious pieces by Bach to use this tuning for would be the cello suites given that C is its lowest note. I use an 8 string with C & D as 8th & 7th and the suites works well on it - but I wonder would the decacorde be even better?
Tell you what: pick a piece that I can pluck a transcription of off of the internet. I've been playing around with some tunings just on a purely theoretical level; by plugging them into software and seeing what the fingerings look like. I've been meaning to do that with decacorde tuning because my lady is interested in it. Point me to a piece you're interested in and I'll throw together a Decacorde fingered version and we'll see how playable it looks.

Conall
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:26 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by Conall » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:28 pm

2lost2find wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Conall wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:26 pm
One member says he tried Bach with decacorde tuning (normal EBGDA for strings 1-5, then descending basses by step GFEDC).

Has any other extended range guitarist tried this tuning?

The obvious pieces by Bach to use this tuning for would be the cello suites given that C is its lowest note. I use an 8 string with C & D as 8th & 7th and the suites works well on it - but I wonder would the decacorde be even better?
Tell you what: pick a piece that I can pluck a transcription of off of the internet. I've been playing around with some tunings just on a purely theoretical level; by plugging them into software and seeing what the fingerings look like. I've been meaning to do that with decacorde tuning because my lady is interested in it. Point me to a piece you're interested in and I'll throw together a Decacorde fingered version and we'll see how playable it looks.
If you read bass clef the Bach cello suites are freely available on the internet.
If you don't you could download Musescore then transpose a cello suite up an octave & change the clef to treble since the guitar sounds an octave lower than we write (on treble clef).
Here's one that should work in that way. If you'd prefer not to download & transpose as above I'll do it & pm it to you once I get near my pc (later this weekend):

https://musescore.com/user/19193/scores/52585

Best of all would be one of the movements that use a lot of the lower bass notes in order to exploit the decacorde tuning - or one that is very chordal (but not so much in the traditional guitar chord shapes sense since the decacorde tuning would alter these a lot).

How about the sarabande from the same suite?

https://musescore.com/sheetmusic?text=b ... +Sarabande

soltirefa
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by soltirefa » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:45 pm

I tried the decacorde tuning to play this Weiss piece. It's nice in that you have the alphabet of open basses, but you miss that E 6th string after a while.


2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Conall wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:28 pm
2lost2find wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Conall wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:26 pm
One member says he tried Bach with decacorde tuning (normal EBGDA for strings 1-5, then descending basses by step GFEDC).

Has any other extended range guitarist tried this tuning?

The obvious pieces by Bach to use this tuning for would be the cello suites given that C is its lowest note. I use an 8 string with C & D as 8th & 7th and the suites works well on it - but I wonder would the decacorde be even better?
Tell you what: pick a piece that I can pluck a transcription of off of the internet. I've been playing around with some tunings just on a purely theoretical level; by plugging them into software and seeing what the fingerings look like. I've been meaning to do that with decacorde tuning because my lady is interested in it. Point me to a piece you're interested in and I'll throw together a Decacorde fingered version and we'll see how playable it looks.
If you read bass clef the Bach cello suites are freely available on the internet.
If you don't you could download Musescore then transpose a cello suite up an octave & change the clef to treble since the guitar sounds an octave lower than we write (on treble clef).
Here's one that should work in that way. If you'd prefer not to download & transpose as above I'll do it & pm it to you once I get near my pc (later this weekend):

https://musescore.com/user/19193/scores/52585

Best of all would be one of the movements that use a lot of the lower bass notes in order to exploit the decacorde tuning - or one that is very chordal (but not so much in the traditional guitar chord shapes sense since the decacorde tuning would alter these a lot).

How about the sarabande from the same suite?

https://musescore.com/sheetmusic?text=b ... +Sarabande
I'll try that Sarabande later today or tomorrow morning.
Last edited by 2lost2find on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:36 pm

I'm going to do three arrangements of it for comparison purposes (this ties in with a couple of projects I have going so it's serendipitous). One for the Carulli decacorde tuning, one for baroque lute in Dm, and one for 8 string guitar with D and C bass.
Last edited by 2lost2find on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:46 pm

NM

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:54 pm

At first I failed to notice the clef so i thought it was a guitar transcription... I really am not on my game this morning... :oops:

If someone knows of a guitar transcription that can be downloaded for free I'd be curious to get a look. My experience with Bach transcriptions borders on zero so I'm interested to see what others have done.

Conall
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:26 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by Conall » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:00 pm

I'll transpose it in Musescore & post or send it to you this weekend if I get the chance. It's very easy to do: download the free Musescore software, go on the scores section of the website (where I got the sarabande), register, download as a Musescore file & open it in the software, go to transpose (up an octave), add a guitar stave, copy& paste into it, delete cello.

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:03 pm

I've never used Musescore. I'm doing the free trial of Dorico at the moment and am really liking it.

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:17 pm

Don't worry about the transposition, BTW. I'm going to have to re-input anyway anyway and I read bass clef just fine. I was more interested to see how other transcriptionists approach this stuff.

RobMacKillop
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Location: Edinburgh

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by RobMacKillop » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Soltirefa, these two are too focussed to have noticed your beautiful performance. Had they noticed, they might have had two or three questions for someone who has clearly some valuable experience in Decacorde tuning. ;-)

2lost2find
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:04 am

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by 2lost2find » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:01 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:49 pm
Soltirefa, these two are too focussed to have noticed your beautiful performance. Had they noticed, they might have had two or three questions for someone who has clearly some valuable experience in Decacorde tuning. ;-)
:oops:

I did notice, but failed to comment. My apologies. I really love the tone you're getting out of that ten string, and lovely interpretation to boot. And I do have a couple questions, but was reserving them until I've made my arrangement to see if the answers made themselves apparent as I went. I will ask one now: you said you missed the E as the 6th string. Is it because you have to reach across more strings to reach certain bass notes in the higher positions?

soltirefa
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by soltirefa » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:15 pm

2lost2find wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:01 pm
RobMacKillop wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:49 pm
Soltirefa, these two are too focussed to have noticed your beautiful performance. Had they noticed, they might have had two or three questions for someone who has clearly some valuable experience in Decacorde tuning.
:oops:

I did notice, but failed to comment. My apologies. I really love the tone you're getting out of that ten string, and lovely interpretation to boot. And I do have a couple questions, but was reserving them until I've made my arrangement to see if the answers made themselves apparent as I went. I will ask one now: you said you missed the E as the 6th string. Is it because you have to reach across more strings to reach certain bass notes in the higher positions?
Rob, that was nice of you to say. I just put it out there, but wasn't sure it was what anybody wanted to see/hear. It is an intriguing tuning, sort of lute-like with all the open basses at one's disposal. I actually made a 3-ring binder of a collection of pieces I like that would fit this tuning. Another Weiss piece that looks promising is the Fantasie in C minor, except that I would play it in D minor. With this tuning you can play all the basses lower as intended.

Missing the E=6th - Yes, you need to fret some notes in different locations than you're used to. But it's just being used to reading the notes on the 6th string and not having it be normal. It makes your guitar only usable for certain pieces and you start missing being able to play pieces that would normally be available to you. It's a fun tuning to visit though. It's not too hard to change strings to go back and forth between various tunings.

Right now I have my 10-string tuned to the Yepes tuning and just play my 6-string stuff on it. I gotta say, it really does add a certain sparkle to the sound. I rather enjoy it. Sometimes I feel bad I'm not using the extra 4 strings (actually I do use the 7th for some 7-string pieces I know), but then I realize I am using the extra strings, just not plucking them. But they are adding to the sound.
Last edited by soltirefa on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gilles T
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:11 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Bach & Decacorde Tuning

Post by gilles T » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:20 pm

Hello,
viewtopic.php?t=55102

Hope this helps,
cheers.

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