Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Conall
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Conall » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:09 pm

Altophile wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:43 pm
RobMacKillop wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:35 pm
I'm sorry, altophile. You posted something in all innocence, something you like, possibly hoping others might enthuse about it too. Many people like what Mr Blanchette does, and I never criticised his playing or the man himself. I believe he is wrong to say he invented the archguitar, and gave evidence that such things existed before and were different from what he is playing. Torres himself made 11-string guitars - nothing new there - but he didn't call it the ar,
chguitar. It's not pedantic to mention these things. My point was that he can call it an archguitar if he likes, but that doesn't make it one. And he can claim he invented it all he wants, but that doesn't mean he did.
No worries, mate. I just no longer think I belong here.

Take care, and best regards,

~Sean
Please don't go - I enjoy your posts - including this one!

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:12 pm

guitarmaker wrote:Curious topic: I used to own an eleven string guitar, made by Torres, some 150 years ago: as they say, 'nothing new under the sun'. Sadly no evidence of the specific tuning , if there was one, survives. bc
Wow - was it one of the "guitarpa" instruments "invented" by Soria? Any pictures?

Altophile
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Altophile » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:54 pm

Please don't go - I enjoy your posts - including this one!

Thanks, Conall, I appreciate that:-)

My reason for joining the forum just doesn't correspond well with what so many others conceive of as its better purpose. It's nobody's fault, it's just a disconnect that I didn't anticipate when I joined.

At the very least I need a vacation from the Internet! The question is: Do I have the self-discipline to take it? We'll see.

~Sean

Conall
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:26 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Conall » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:13 pm

Altophile wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:54 pm
Please don't go - I enjoy your posts - including this one!

Thanks, Conall, I appreciate that:-)

My reason for joining the forum just doesn't correspond well with what so many others conceive of as its better purpose. It's nobody's fault, it's just a disconnect that I didn't anticipate when I joined.

At the very least I need a vacation from the Internet! The question is: Do I have the self-discipline to take it? We'll see.

~Sean
I believe that many male forum members have very large egos, like many men elsewhere. Unfortunately this can lead to completely unnecessary one-upmanship & consequent friction. However I still think this forum has enough useful & entertaining information about CG to make participation worthwhile.
Moderators are usually good enough at stopping the worst & most irrelevant rubbish though I wish there were fewer posts unrelated to CG / music.
By all means pull back a bit from the internet. I've seen the benefit of lessening my Facebook use for example but I hope you don't give up on Delcamp. I tend to avoid the more provocative threads or take them to be an attempt at humour.
Anyway, I'll try to send those files tonight.

RobMacKillop
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by RobMacKillop » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:23 pm

I wouldn't say my ego was involved in this discussion, Conall, if that is what you are suggesting. The guy said he invented the archguitar, and I pointed out he didn't. Nor did he invent the 11-string guitar. I was accused of pedantry, which it is not. I'm sorry the op is leaving, but if I'm being blamed for that...well, I've nothing else to say other than I wish he'd stay.

2lost2find
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by 2lost2find » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:36 pm

Altophile wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:54 pm
Please don't go - I enjoy your posts - including this one!

Thanks, Conall, I appreciate that:-)

My reason for joining the forum just doesn't correspond well with what so many others conceive of as its better purpose. It's nobody's fault, it's just a disconnect that I didn't anticipate when I joined.

At the very least I need a vacation from the Internet! The question is: Do I have the self-discipline to take it? We'll see.

~Sean
So what were you hoping for, if you don't mind my asking?

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MartinCogg
Amateur luthier
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by MartinCogg » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:38 pm

I invented a new guitar too -

I was going to call it Archie, but now I realize that could land me
in trouble with the authorities...
guitarchie.jpg
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gilles T
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by gilles T » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:55 pm

If you permit, I would like to raise a point that was strangely forgotten in this strong argument : what about the music ?

Long ago, I bought a record by Mr Blanchette; I loved it, this fueled the fire of my ongoing interest for multi-string guitars. From there, I became aware of early music and historical informed performance, and my tatses became more focused and refined — yes, taste is a matter of learning IMHO.
Then one day, I discovered I couldn't listen anymore to Mr Blanchette's archguitar and its over-processed sound which sounds cool but if I want to listen to this kind of sound, I'd rather go for my good old Van Der Graaf Generator records (yeah ! Peter Hammill rules !).
So, all in all, it's not really a matter of historical accuracy or whatever this instrument might be called, archguitar or not : Mr Blanchette's style is a fair introduction for pop listeners who want to "go baroque", just like some other crossover musicians, but there is far more to gain from learned musicians who don't rely on sound effects to touch our souls.

Just my 2 cents, as we say in french.
Cheers.

Conall
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Conall » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:08 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:23 pm
I wouldn't say my ego was involved in this discussion, Conall, if that is what you are suggesting. The guy said he invented the archguitar, and I pointed out he didn't. Nor did he invent the 11-string guitar. I was accused of pedantry, which it is not. I'm sorry the op is leaving, but if I'm being blamed for that...well, I've nothing else to say other than I wish he'd stay.
No, not you Rob - your replies & posts are always polite & well considered or at least the ones I've read. I understand your objection in this thread about the name archguitar & also the problems with over-resonance - & I agree with you on both though I probably don't feel as strongly as you about them.

No, I meant a few very direct comments & frankly insulting ones (not directed at me) in recent threads from a few other members - which don't help anybody.

I really like this forum & have taken away some interesting & useful info from it (from you too). I just wish some members would remember that the written word is not always good at conveying implied humour & that that can be mistaken for attacking opinions / personal attacks. Conversely I guess others (not suggesting the OP) may be a bit over-sensitive too.

Right, I'm off for now!

Altophile
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Altophile » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:29 pm

2lost2find wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:36 pm
Altophile wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:54 pm
Please don't go - I enjoy your posts - including this one!

Thanks, Conall, I appreciate that:-)

My reason for joining the forum just doesn't correspond well with what so many others conceive of as its better purpose. It's nobody's fault, it's just a disconnect that I didn't anticipate when I joined.

At the very least I need a vacation from the Internet! The question is: Do I have the self-discipline to take it? We'll see.

~Sean
So what were you hoping for, if you don't mind my asking?
It depends. Do you really want to know, or are you looking for an opportunity to ridicule, as so many seem wont to do?

In a world that pretends to offer opportunity but really presents a huge wall of obstacles, bickering, disagreement, dispute, one-upsmanship, egos, financial challenges, relationaship challenges, career challenges, back-stabbing -- where everyone "knows" s/he is right and is determined to prove it (choose your subject) -- where people seek to destroy those with whom they disagree rather than accepting disagreement -- all of which results in a relentless grinding down of this human spirit -- I sought a place to escape it all and just talk about something I love in a light-hearted atmosphere.

It's nobody's fault; it just turned out that the shoe didn't fit.

RobMacKillop
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Location: Edinburgh

Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by RobMacKillop » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:35 pm

Well, I'm feeling really bad. I didn't realise I was trying to destroy you. My beef was not with you, but for a guy trying to aggrandise himself while rewriting history. I'm sorry you feel the way you do as a result of my comments. There's a lot of light heartedness in this forum (some argue too much) enough to keep those who seek such things happy for years, it seems. I'm truly sorry you are leaving, and that I had some part in the decision.

Altophile
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Altophile » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:42 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:35 pm
Well, I'm feeling really bad. I didn't realise I was trying to destroy you. My beef was not with you, but for a guy trying to aggrandise himself while rewriting history. I'm sorry you feel the way you do as a result of my comments. There's a lot of light heartedness in this forum (some argue too much) enough to keep those who seek such things happy for years, it seems. I'm truly sorry you are leaving, and that I had some part in the decision.
No need to apologize, Rob. You're a professional musician, and you have a right to seek precision in understanding vis a vis your area of expertise.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit battered down these days and probably over-sensitive as a result. I really need that vacation!

2lost2find
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by 2lost2find » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Altophile wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:29 pm

It depends. Do you really want to know, or are you looking for an opportunity to ridicule, as so many seem wont to do?

In a world that pretends to offer opportunity but really presents a huge wall of obstacles, bickering, disagreement, dispute, one-upsmanship, egos, financial challenges, relationaship challenges, career challenges, back-stabbing -- where everyone "knows" s/he is right and is determined to prove it (choose your subject) -- where people seek to destroy those with whom they disagree rather than accepting disagreement -- all of which results in a relentless grinding down of this human spirit -- I sought a place to escape it all and just talk about something I love in a light-hearted atmosphere.

It's nobody's fault; it just turned out that the shoe didn't fit.
Well, entirely lighthearted probably isn't going to happen in a place like this. This is a forum about something people are PASSIONATE about. I've spent a bare minimum of two hours almost every single day at this for almost thirty years; that makes it a tough subject to approach in any casual way. That said, there is a certain old guard here that will shout down anybody who disputes established groupthink, for instance the ridiculous idea that you'll always be a mediocre player without private lessons. I agree that it's annoying.

That said, I don't think Rob was being needlessly pendantic or splitting hairs in this case. Words mean things, and the word archguitar has a pre-existing definition. It's by no means a denigration of the performer or his instrument to state that he didn't invent anything particularly original, either. There's enough of the historian in me to want to insist on good scholarship and correct definitions; I have to stand with Rob on this.

Hope you don't leave over this; it's a minor disagreement.

Jason
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Jason » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:39 am

I hope you stay on aswell. I quite enjoy this forum. I like to keep things light hearted, and don't participate in anything thats too serious, but I read most things on here. I have had the opportunity to share, and even to motivate, that being said, I was recently attacked to a very mild degree over somebody not understanding my sense of humor, I responded, which I shouldn't have, as the moderators quickly dealt with him. My point, water off a ducks back as they say. I really hope you stick around, as there are a lot of good discussions to take part in :)
2018 Yamaha gc42s
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(At the moment)

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Arduous
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Re: Bream Begets the Archguitar: Who Knew?

Post by Arduous » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:04 am

"Well, he invented the guitar..."

Nah...I'm not gonna go there....I deleted my initial comment.

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