Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

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Alexander Kalil
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Alexander Kalil » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:34 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:33 pm
I am confused about measures 11 and 12 .. how to finish it? .. Any ideas?
Regarding measure 12, I think this is simply a G augmented triad resolving to a C major triad. So I'd play the C and E quieter than the B and D#, with the G's subdued, and the whole with a slight ritenuto across the measure.

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:10 pm

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:34 pm
Regarding measure 12, I think this is simply a G augmented triad resolving to a C major triad. So I'd play the C and E quieter than the B and D#, with the G's subdued, and the whole with a slight ritenuto across the measure.
In short, a slightly strange semi-cadence. Your soluion sounds like the most logical and simple. This piece is full of weird harmonies. There isn't the normal, controlled building tension, then releasing it. It is difficult to know in what direction to take such pieces so that you make a clear statement for your audience. Perhaps Sor's point was the mechanical practice of playing rapidly changing thirds and he did invest seriously in the harmonic development.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm

I'm now posting Sor's Opus 35 #5 for you all to listen to and comment. As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used was my Kuniharu Nobe #8 (1972), with Knobloch Actives CX 500 Carbon Double Silver, High Tension strings (20 days old and 13h of effective playing time :D). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below.

Sor’s Opus 35, #5. Learning period: 21Mar19 - 14Apr19 Comments: As I cannot sight read at the speed the piece is supposed to be played at, I had to memorize it first and slowly increase the tempo. I reached a speed of 1/16 = 230 bpm, higher than I had planned initially - 200 bpm. I might go further but I feel I've reached already my limit and to to play it faster - say, 10 or 20 bpm more - would pin me down to it one or two weeks more. So, unless there is an outcry from you my Friends :lol:, I will let it be for now and move into the #9 :D.

As the piece has two sections, repeated, and five different phrases, some of which repeated in the two sections (see please my post above), I ended up having to play 14 phrases by memory in order to complete the piece :shock:. That's quite a lot, I would say, and, occasionally, I played a given phrase in the wrong order... :(. From all these phrases, Phrase E is the most difficult and prone to errors, specially if you are really going fast.

I played the whole piece using p, m and i. I also used one small trick that can be useful to others: in Phrase D, m.19, I did not use the barré indicated in the score, instead, the D treble is played in the 3rd string, fret 7 (6D3 in van Handel's ASCII music notation, whose format is DNS (duration-note-string), in which duration = 1 (whole note; 2 (1/2 note); 4 (1/4 note) 6 (16th note) 5 (32nd note, 2**-5)). So, I press the string with my finger 3 for both B, b.1 in the 4th string (8B4) and D, b.4 in the 3rd string (6D3). Thus, while my i finger stays put in the 3rd string fret 5 (serving as an anchor for the whole measure) my a finger stays in the 7th fret, moving successively from the 4th string to the 3rd and back again. This positioning, once mechanized, is much faster than doing the barré suggested in the score.

Finally, listening to my record, I noticed a small hesitation, a de-synchronization, in the first run of m.23 :(. The rest seems to be reasonably OK, but please let me know if you find any mistakes. Suggestions for improvements are also most welcome.

Fernando Sor - Opus 35 #5 (V1).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #5 (V1).mp3


So, now, the table of posted studies is the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 15Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

My next self-assignment is to post a sound file of the #9 study.

Edited to point out that my next assignment will be the Study #9, the next Novice piece following the #5 in the TPR, and not the #6, as I had erroneously stated.

Edited again to replace phrase "...the F treble is played in the 3rd string, fret 7 (6F3 in van Handel's ASCII..." in the fourth paragraph by this other "...the D treble is played in the 3rd string, fret 7 (6D3 in van Handel's ASCII..."
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Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:29 am, edited 5 times in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

mainterm
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by mainterm » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:37 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
I'm now posting Sor's Opus 35 #5 for you all to listen to and comment.
[...]
Very nicely done Jorge - keep working, thinking and improving!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:08 pm

mainterm wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:37 am
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
I'm now posting Sor's Opus 35 #5 for you all to listen to and comment.
[...]
Very nicely done Jorge - keep working, thinking and improving!
Why mainterm, thank you, you are very kind, those were nice and encouraging words, I appreciated it :D. I'm now in the #9, the next "Novice" grade in the list. It doesn't look as difficult as the #5, it's just an Andante... :)
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

mmcnabb
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by mmcnabb » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:22 am

Is it too late to join? I just saw this post and recorded a quick read-through of #1. Hope it's ok to drop in late :D

Sor Op. 35 No. 1

Flubbed the low G at the end, but such is life...
Last edited by mmcnabb on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:20 am

mmcnabb wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:22 am
Is it too late to join? I just saw this post and recorded a quick read-through of #1. Hope it's ok to drop in late :D

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuCOPEItEv5owtsFwkw ... A?e=f8XIBn

Flubbed the low G at the end, but such is life...
No, mmcnabb, it is never too late to join this thread, any Forum Member can do it at any time and proceed learning and posting records at her/his own pace. Welcome, then :D.

I heard your rendition and it's quite nice. The tone is excellent, the tempo is adequate and the record is clear. Good job! :D. To the #2, then... 8)

One issue concerning the naming of the piece: you just inserted a link but it would be better if this link could appear as the name of the piece. And it's dead easy to do it, just fill url fields like this:

[url"=the URL link of the mp3 file extracted from the cloud drive]put here the name of the link[/url]

(in reality, you should not put the " before the = in the [url"=…, I just put it there to make sure that the Forum software does not apply the command and prevents you to see how to use the tool).

The result, using your link above is the following:

Fernando Sor - Opus 35 #1

In addition, you could also post your rendition as an attachment (there is a button for the effect below the text area, on the left). Once clicked, you just have to add the file where your rendition is in your PC - button “Add files”. Mind you, the system only accepts the format .wma for audio files to be added and there is a limit to the size of the file (around 300 KB, if I’m not mistaken). You can use the audio editor Audacity to generate both .mp3 and .wma files starting from a raw .wmv file. If you need to know a bit more about how to use Audacity, just tell me.

With this rendition of yours, mmcnabb, I added an entry for you in the Table of Posted Records, as follows:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 18Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

mmcnabb
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by mmcnabb » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:18 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:20 am
In addition, you could also post your rendition as an attachment (there is a button for the effect below the text area, on the left).
Jorge Oliveira, thanks for the tips, I've added the recording as a WMA file! And thanks for the compliments!
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mmcnabb
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by mmcnabb » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 am

And here's my take on #2

Sor Op. 35 No. 2
Cordoba C7

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:21 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
Comments:
Hi, Jorge,
It is two hours before the start of Passover, and I do not have time now to listen your playing. One quick request: Please do not use the color #00BF00. I am red/green color-blind and have great difficulty reading green text, especially on a gray background (green looks gray). Red text is OK, it just looks black.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:33 pm

I'm posting a third version Sor's Opus 35 #4 for you all to listen to and comment. The reality is that I was not that happy with the tempo I had achieved in V2, 1/4 = 80 bpm. Playing it at this speed looked hard enough but, when listening to the record, the whole thing sounded to me as being too slow. So I upped it a little bit to 1/4 = 87.5 bpm. What came out is, still, not entirely satisfactory to me, some of the notes, specially in the second part, appear not be be crystal clear. But that's my best for the moment, I'll keep on rehearsing this piece and, who knows, I may post another version in the near future.

As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. This time, the guitar I used was my Hermanos Camps Master (2014), with Knobloch Actives CX 500 Carbon Double Silver, High Tension strings (21 days old and 19h of effective playing time :D). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below.

Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #4 (V3).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #4 (V3).mp3

So, now, the table of posted studies is the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 19Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:45 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:21 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm
Comments:
Hi, Jorge,
It is two hours before the start of Passover, and I do not have time now to listen your playing. One quick request: Please do not use the color #00BF00. I am red/green color-blind and have great difficulty reading green text, especially on a gray background (green looks gray). Red text is OK, it just looks black.
Sorry, Yisrael, I had no idea, I'll use black from now on in my comments :). My comments to #5 are in black, now. :D
Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:09 pm

mmcnabb wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 am
And here's my take on #2

Sor Op. 35 No. 2
Excellent, mmcnabb, very well played. Good tone, good record, good tempo, this one is learned, no doubt. Now, to the #3... Remember, this is a larghetto, so, don't rush. And the gruppetto in m.19 is to be played as a fast slur.

So, now, the table of posted studies is the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 19Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

mmcnabb
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:35 am

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by mmcnabb » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:32 pm

So I’m nearly ready to post #3, and I have a head start on a couple of others like #17 which I think everyone already knows. However I realized I don’t have a complete source for this opus. I have the first 12 from Eythor Thorlason’s site, and the remaining 12 from IMSLP. While IMSLP is a great resource, the scores are not always best for readability.

What source would you all recommend? I’ve been eyeing the complete studies edited by Grimes but don’t want to waste my time if it’s not great.

Thanks!
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:38 pm

mmcnabb wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:32 pm
So I’m nearly ready to post #3, and I have a head start on a couple of others like #17 which I think everyone already knows. However I realized I don’t have a complete source for this opus. I have the first 12 from Eythor Thorlason’s site, and the remaining 12 from IMSLP. While IMSLP is a great resource, the scores are not always best for readability.

What source would you all recommend? I’ve been eyeing the complete studies edited by Grimes but don’t want to waste my time if it’s not great.

Thanks!
I'm using Chanterelle's completed studies edited by Jan de Kloe and with Historical Notes by Matanya Ophee. It's pretty good - it has large rings holding the pages - and Its readability is excellent. It cost me € 29,00 at Guitarras de Luthier on-line shop in Madrid in May-2016. I've heard that Tecla's edition of the complete studies, edited by Brian Jeffery, is also very good. I believe both can be acquired through Amazon.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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