Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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ElectricLute
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by ElectricLute » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:18 am

Michael Chapdelain won the Guitar Foundation of America International Classical Guitar Competition and the National Fingerstyle Championships at the Walnut Valley Bluegrass Festival. He's uses classical guitar technique as a fingerstyle musician .
I teach both to my students . I tell them the technique is the same .
i certainly wouldn't call fingerstyle semi classical .
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dory
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by dory » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:59 am

The problem for me lies with the term “classical guitar.” Does it refer to the instrument? Lots of people— especially in Latin America, use classical guitars to strum chords and can’t read music. Is it the style of playing? Some fingerstyle players use a very similar technique to classical players but on stell string guitars. Is this “classical technique” if it is on a steel string guitar? (Of course a lot of people play both. ) Is it a style of music? I have heard Tárrega played on a steel string guitar. It was quite nice but is that classical? If weeven know what classical music is these days, I play a lot of music that is not classical on my classical guitar. At what point have I crossed some invisible line. What about, for example, the arrangements of Venezuelan popular music by Alirio Diaz? Is that classical guitar? He was a famous classical guitarist and used classical technique. For me the most challenging assumption is that “fingerstyle” guitarists are self-taught or don’t read music. Someone I know who won a fingerstyle contest has a Master’s in Music or an MFA in guitar. Not sure which degree. I don’t know the answer to any of these questions but I think all are relevant.
Dory

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ElectricLute
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by ElectricLute » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:09 am

dory wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:59 am
The problem for me lies with the term “classical guitar.” Does it refer to the instrument? Lots of people— especially in Latin America, use classical guitars to strum chords and can’t read music. Is it the style of playing? Some fingerstyle players use a very similar technique to classical players but on stell string guitars. Is this “classical technique” if it is on a steel string guitar? (Of course a lot of people play both. ) Is it a style of music? I have heard Tárrega played on a steel string guitar. It was quite nice but is that classical? If weeven know what classical music is these days, I play a lot of music that is not classical on my classical guitar. At what point have I crossed some invisible line. What about, for example, the arrangements of Venezuelan popular music by Alirio Diaz? Is that classical guitar? He was a famous classical guitarist and used classical technique. For me the most challenging assumption is that “fingerstyle” guitarists are self-taught or don’t read music. Someone I know who won a fingerstyle contest has a Master’s in Music or an MFA in guitar. Not sure which degree. I don’t know the answer to any of these questions but I think all are relevant.
Classical guitar is a Torres body with nylon strings and fingerstyle (acoustic guitar) uses a larger body with steel strings . Classical guitarists can adapt their technique to both . However fingerstyle players not trained will generally only use p,i and m and a only with chords .
Terms differentiate the instruments not the type of music.
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ElectricLute
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by ElectricLute » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:27 pm

This is one of those endless arguments . It's similar to a previous post about classical and acoustic guitar and if they are the same .
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Jordona
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by Jordona » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:40 am

I wouldn't make a big deal if I heard someone say so. MPO, I think it refers to the music. No biggie😉

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twang
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by twang » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:17 pm

ElectricLute wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:27 pm
This is one of those endless arguments. It's similar to a previous post about classical and acoustic guitar and if they are the same .
In many technical fields we take great care to carefully define certain words and phrases. We learn to disregard how we personally might like to interpret a certain word or phase and defer to an agreed (and documented) definition-- no matter how counter intuitive we personally might find it. In fact, when it comes to new definitions, we'll often coin our own words, or borrow foreign words precisely because those words don't import semantic garbage.

Have you ever watched two people, who hold the same opinion, violently arguing over what amounts to a personal preference for how to express that opinion? We call it being in "violent agreement". It's funny the first few times you see it happen; it quickly becomes annoying.

This issue is well understood in our professional environment. I've had many amusing lunch-time discussions about the frustrations of getting along in the real world where people seem to be totally oblivious to it. There's a real human tendency to get distracted by, and to argue for, one's own definition instead of trying to understand what your friend is really trying to say. It's a listening skill. In any informal conversation you'll usually be well served by dropping your own definitions, figuring out understanding those of your friend, and using his terms.

Often times, in reviewing research, we find it necessary to catalog the semantic differences various teams give to identical terms. That's pretty much what you see happening in a thread like this. So yes, it does end up being an endless "argument"; and usually pretty pointless as well; we're not likely to take the next step and develop a set of formal agreed upon definitions.
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Grasshopper
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by Grasshopper » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:25 pm

Yes, I agree. Words are important because people think in words. When those words are debased, by either misuse or because the word is so often used metaphorically that it no longer has its original meaning, both language and thought are compromised. We see this all the time in politics where words are deliberately misused to conceal the truth or make things seem better than they actually are.

The English language is particular vulnerable to abuse because it's spoken by so many people around the world - many of whom use it as their second or third language. Much of what is spoken in English now is pretty meaningless. When every word can have several meanings even simple sentences become ambiguous.

MaritimeGuitarist
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by MaritimeGuitarist » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:51 pm

Two questions for thought:

1. If you were giving a fingerstyle concert, would you want to be introduced as a semi-classical guitarist?

2. Does this mean that classical guitarists are semi-fingerstylists?
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musicbyandy
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by musicbyandy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:05 pm

Thomas wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:53 pm
I wonder if I can call a finger style semi-classical :)

Do you understand what I mean?

Edit: I mean the manner of playing not the genre.
Did you feel that your question: "I wonder if I can call a finger style semi-classical :) Do you understand what I mean?" was answered?

Wuuthrad
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by Wuuthrad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:49 am

twang wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:17 pm

it does end up being an endless "argument"; and usually pretty pointless as well; we're not likely to take the next step and develop a set of formal agreed upon definitions.
I disagree, and in fact I find your characterizations a bit suspect. How in fact are you to presume to know the possible outcome of this discussion? As if it automatically meets a pre-determined outcome based on your personal experience?

The OP asked a specific question, and your description of developing a set of "formal agreed upon definitions" does not appear to address the question at all, but rather seems to suggest that answering the question is pointless. If you did somewhere answer the original question I may have missed that post.

But why post at all without offering your own definitions? You've established an ideal criteria for resolution of this "argument" but offer nothing to meet those criteria.

:?:
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

Wuuthrad
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by Wuuthrad » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:01 am

Grasshopper wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:25 pm


The English language is particular vulnerable to abuse because it's spoken by so many people around the world - many of whom use it as their second or third language. Much of what is spoken in English now is pretty meaningless. When every word can have several meanings even simple sentences become ambiguous.
:shock:

Have you seen the stats that show the average level of USA English language comprehension?

Its 3rd Grade English!

I think you may do well to understand that many people who speak English as a second or third language often do so at a considerably higher level than many Americans. This is not because of country of origin, it's due to education. Which to me is lacking if you only know one language.

The next time you hear someone speaking English and determine its being "abused" as a second or third language, please do the World a favor and speak with as much eloquence and literacy in their own 1st, 2nd or 3rd language!

:)
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

Grasshopper
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by Grasshopper » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:47 am

Most English people speak English very badly too - even BBC announcers nowadays speak the language badly. I've spent many years living abroad so I'm reasonable at French, German and Dutch. The problem is, for people who speak English (the world's second language), is that even when you're abroad people want to talk English to you - because they want to improve their English. So my attempts to speak in their languages were often frustrated because they said - let's talk English instead. And in Holland, in particular, their English was usually vey good indeed.

But the other problem for English people trying to talk foreign languages is that foreigners are far less accommodating about mistakes than the English are. If you get words slightly wrong in Holland or France they just haven't got a clue what you're talking about. But the English are so used to bad grammar and bad pronunciation that we can understand almost anything - A Frenchman could pronounce English words in the French way and literally translate every word - even idioms - and we can still understand it. That's why the language is being degraded.

But, of course, I'm an extreme pedant about correct usage of language. People think in words so if you can twist the meaning of words then you can alter the way people think - George Orwell wrote very eloquently on this. It's something that our politicians have become very good at.

VasquezBob
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by VasquezBob » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:18 pm

You have stepped into the difficulty of learning music, namely, too many words to say the same thing or words that have multiple definitions. I tried to define "motet" once and gave up until I came across the definitive answer. Humpty Dumpty says that a motet is whatever you want it to be! I like that. What is "finger style" or "fingerstyle" or "finger-style"? I play classical music and I use my fingers on the fretboard (or is it "fret board") and I play the strings with my fingers (the hand that has the longer finger nails). Oops, time to practice...

chinese
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Re: Can I call finger style semi- classical?

Post by chinese » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:45 am

Fingerstyle is not a simple style. Every splendid technic used in the acoustic guitar can be called fingerstyle.
Maybe they don't find a good way to glass this type of music.

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