Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Julian Ward
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by Julian Ward » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:47 pm

Well what about all the great Spanish piano music transcribed onto guitar, many of which were by Segovia? There are many transcriptions/arrangements around of the greats such as Asturias, Granada, Sevilla, Cordoba, Mallorca. Danza Espanolas etc.. etc... Are we to assume that every time somebody has done this they started from scratch, miraculously ended up in the same key...!? Yeah right they did... Lol.
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souldier
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by souldier » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:57 pm

David Norton wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:39 pm
The whole concept of "intellectual property" and copyright and whatnot was not NEARLY as closely followed in the years of Segovia's ascent. His contemporaries on other instruments were equally lackadaisical about proper attribution of authorship or editorship. It simply wasn't important in those days.

Nowadays, in a far more litigious and far more critical (and often finger-pointing / blame-driven) social culture, it's a very different matter. What was acceptable practice in 1919 or 1939 would never pass scrutiny today. But we can't fairly retroactively apply 2019 social and legal culture to pass condemnation on how such things were done 80 to 100 (or more!) years ago.
David hit the nail on the head here. Even in the literary world, book authors were constantly borrowing from each other without giving credit to their sources and this was considered fair use. This would be considered flat out plagiarism today.
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bodhisattva
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by bodhisattva » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:15 am

Chuah Hui Hsien wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:49 am
Is it so important to know all the facts and details about somebody's work and ignore his contributions toward classical guitar?
I don't know why Chuah Hui Hsien has to invent such ideas.

The fact is:
1/ I don't request anybody to "know all the facts and details about" Segovia's work.
2/ I don't "ignore his contributions toward classical guitar".

Do I need to write 10,000 words to praise all Segovia's contributions toward classical guitar, BEFORE I can simply raise some questions about his "arrangement" of Bach's Chaconne?

Chuah Hui Hsien
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by Chuah Hui Hsien » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:37 pm

No doubt, Segovia is the most influential guitarist in the 20th century, you may not like or even querie his intergrity, so what? Let the old man rest in peace.

During his time, no one has done a transcription of Chaccone for guitar, in order to play something different to woo the audience, anyone would grasp whatever material available to work on. In those days, who cares about copyright anyway. Today we have so many good guitar arrangements of Bach, pick the one you like and study,and perform if you will.
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riffmeister
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by riffmeister » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:07 pm

David Norton wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:39 pm
The whole concept of "intellectual property" and copyright and whatnot was not NEARLY as closely followed in the years of Segovia's ascent. His contemporaries on other instruments were equally lackadaisical about proper attribution of authorship or editorship. It simply wasn't important in those days.

Nowadays, in a far more litigious and far more critical (and often finger-pointing / blame-driven) social culture, it's a very different matter. What was acceptable practice in 1919 or 1939 would never pass scrutiny today. But we can't fairly retroactively apply 2019 social and legal culture to pass condemnation on how such things were done 80 to 100 (or more!) years ago.
This. Great post, David.

brooks
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Re: Did Segovia innocently forget to acknowledge the sources?

Post by brooks » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:31 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:01 am

There is clear evidence that Segovia borrowed extensively from Busoni's arrangement - hunches and guesswork (as you put it) are not required. At the time however Busoni's ciaccona was famous and recognisable - it was simply not necessary to state the obvious.
What is the "clear evidence"?

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