Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Don W
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Location: Ma.

Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by Don W » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:01 am

I have a Yamaha CG142. I am new to classical guitar and this is my first new topic post. I like this guitar very much but recently have been hearing a "secondary" tone coming from the saddle area when I am playing on the D and A strings. This is not a string height buzz but is a secondary tone or "echo" of the note I am playing coming from the saddle area. I have tried normal tension and hard tension strings and have been careful to apply strings correctly and have had the strings changed and string height checked by an experienced guitarist. The sound persists. Has anyone experienced this...any suggestions...its annoying as it makes the note sound slightly out of tune when I play.

DerekB
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 10:22 am
Location: Bollington, Cheshire UK

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by DerekB » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:14 am

Are the ends of the strings touching the top of the guitar? If so, simply trim them with a pair of nail-clippers.
I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn... - Seasick Steve

Ana Espinosa 2014 Swiss spruce/IRW
Yulong Guo 2009 640mm scale cedar/IRW

Don W
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Location: Ma.

Don W

Post by Don W » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 pm

No...the strings are trimmed and not touching the guitar.

pasigenyo
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Novato, CA

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by pasigenyo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:15 pm

Sounds like a similar phenomenon with my guitar. It's like the string has a "chorus" effect and seems to come from the bridge area. Check if your saddle is too thin for the slot and if it rocks back and forth when you move it (with the strings loosened, of course). I have not been able to eliminate that effect, but I've reduced it drastically by replacing the saddle with one that doesn't wiggle. Hope this helps.

Don W
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Location: Ma.

Don W

Post by Don W » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:56 pm

This is what I have been thinking...I'm going to get a new saddle and have it fitted better. The guitar came with a plastic type saddle...thought I would replace it with tusq...any ideas on tusq? What you describe as a "chorus" effect is exactly what I'm hearing. Thanks for the reply.

PeteJ
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by PeteJ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:08 pm

pasigenyo wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:15 pm
Sounds like a similar phenomenon with my guitar. It's like the string has a "chorus" effect and seems to come from the bridge area. Check if your saddle is too thin for the slot and if it rocks back and forth when you move it (with the strings loosened, of course). I have not been able to eliminate that effect, but I've reduced it drastically by replacing the saddle with one that doesn't wiggle. Hope this helps.
Aha. This may be what I've been hearing on certain bass notes on one of my instruments. I thought I must be dreaming.

GuitarsWeB
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by GuitarsWeB » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Give the D string a couple extra winds at the rollers...If you have enough string left. Also, is there a good string break angle from the tie-block holes over the saddle?

Douglass Scott
Luthier
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:44 pm
Location: Ladysmith, Canada

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by Douglass Scott » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:40 pm

This happens a lot with new saddles with flat or too-gradual crowns. And the bass strings have not yet worn notches into the top of the saddle. ...Would be easy to explain if I could draw a picture. You might need to file more of a bevel on the back side of the saddle so the crown is sharper/more sudden.

GuitarsWeB
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by GuitarsWeB » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 pm

Douglass Scott wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:40 pm
This happens a lot with new saddles with flat or too-gradual crowns. And the bass strings have not yet worn notches into the top of the saddle. ...Would be easy to explain if I could draw a picture. You might need to file more of a bevel on the back side of the saddle so the crown is sharper/more sudden.

You can also put small notches on the back side of the saddle. Many luthiers do this.

Don W
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Location: Ma.

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by Don W » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:11 am

Thanks guys for the input...hope to get this sorted out soon.

Don W
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 pm
Location: Ma.

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by Don W » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:19 pm

Just an update...I was able to fix that "chorus tone" coming from the saddle area of the D and A string (when fretted) by applying a tiny bit of fine lubricant under the strings. I used very fine "luthiers" teflon oil (and very little) at the strings where it touches the saddle.

pasigenyo
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Novato, CA

Re: Unwanted tone at the saddle area

Post by pasigenyo » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:42 am

Thanks for the update. I may try that lubricant as well.

Return to “Public Space”