664 scale length

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edcat7
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664 scale length

Post by edcat7 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:21 pm

I can't get Alan's Yamaha out of my head. There are so many good reasons for me not to get it, most of all I think it may be a stretch too far. My stretch is 9-9.5"

Are there any guys in the UK with a 664 (preferably within a couple of hours drive from London)? If so may I come round to see it fits my hands?

Alternatively I hope Alan sells his guitar quickly and put me out of this misery. :)

Ed
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

dandan
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by dandan » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:52 pm

I can't help but I have 8" stretch and I think if I had 9.5" stretch I would try a 664. I can just manage a 650 though, unfortunately. The guitar in question is still a bargain, even at the more realistic price, if I had your hands I'd go for it. I understand you wanting to try one first though. Sometimes if you want a bargain, you have to take a leap of faith.
1954 Makumei Kano
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80 (Masaru Takeiri)

Polifemo de Oro

Re: 664 scale length

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:55 pm

My Ramirez 1A is a 664mm scale. My hands are smaller than yours and I can manage the guitar just fine, as far as stretches go. Overall playability is not just a function of scale, necessarily, but also of string height, nut width, etc.

dandan
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by dandan » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:02 pm

According to those charts you should be playing a 656. By the way there's a similar GC20m on the bay for $7000. Ok, its overpriced but might go for 4-5.
1954 Makumei Kano
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80 (Masaru Takeiri)

a human
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by a human » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:19 pm

Polifemo de Oro wrote:My Ramirez 1A is a 664mm scale. My hands are smaller than yours and I can manage the guitar just fine, as far as stretches go. Overall playability is not just a function of scale, necessarily, but also of string height, nut width, etc.
This. I've played a long scale for 50 years, from age 12. It really depends on the specific guitar and your hand.
1965 Krempel Classical (660ish mm)
The rest come and go.

edcat7
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by edcat7 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:35 pm

I have a Yamaha GC-5m 658mm and the reach is ok; I just find 650 much more comfortable. My boss has a rule over purchases: wait and if I still want it after that period of time, go for it.

Her patience has been severely tried when my instrument collection (I play the erhu, dizi, liuqin and hulusi too) has over taken my daughters' toy clutter.
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

Peterson2

Re: 664 scale length

Post by Peterson2 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:40 pm

"belucci" seems to be the reason for many people thinking their finger strech only suits certain guitars, it is a load of BS he himslef made up and is now being considered as correct thinking, when it is completely not true. for many hundreds of years, people have played small scale violins, then violas and large scale cellos and double basses without the complaints we are seeing about the scale in guitars, which is such a small difference. i dont see small hand viola players give up and switch to violin. now with guitars between 650 and 663mm we are led to believe our finger strech is the determining factor in playing them??? it is ridiculous. in Australia where i live, there are makers building 640mm guitars, but with 54mm nut and clumsy thick necks, and those guitars are WAY more uncomfortable to play then 1960s-80s Spanish and Japanese guitars of 660mm+ scale, as in that era they had great neck profiles.

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Brian McCombs
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by Brian McCombs » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:14 pm

dandan wrote:According to those charts you should be playing a 656. By the way there's a similar GC20m on the bay for $7000. Ok, its overpriced but might go for 4-5.
To what charts are you referring? I've never seen a chart matching hand size to scale length, please share.

dandan
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by dandan » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:40 pm

There's a current topic on hand size in advice on buying guitars section on luthiers forum. There are two hand size charts on there somewhere. I would post a link, but lack the technical ability!
1954 Makumei Kano
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80 (Masaru Takeiri)

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Guitar-ded
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by Guitar-ded » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:53 pm

Brian McCombs wrote:
dandan wrote:According to those charts you should be playing a 656. By the way there's a similar GC20m on the bay for $7000. Ok, its overpriced but might go for 4-5.
To what charts are you referring? I've never seen a chart matching hand size to scale length, please share.
I believe he;s referring to the chart ashepps posted here.

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=92493&start=30

edcat7 wrote:... My boss has a rule over purchases: wait and if I still want it after that period of time, go for it...
Don't you love it when you torture yourself by waiting, ...and waiting, ...and waiting, and then you decide finally you should buy ... and when you get there the guy in front is walking out with your beloved item. :chaud:
Getting better bit by bit, day by day.

edcat7
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by edcat7 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:27 pm

Guitar-ded wrote: Don't you love it when you torture yourself by waiting, ...and waiting, ...and waiting, and then you decide finally you should buy ... and when you get there the guy in front is walking out with your beloved item. :chaud:
There's a little angel above one side of my head that's says no and a little devil on the other side saying yes. Ignoring the boss will mean my sleeping in the dog house for a while.

To mitigate that I'll have to rehome some of my other guitars...but never my Jason Wolverton.
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

Philosopherguy
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by Philosopherguy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:28 am

I would have loved to buy the Yamaha GC20D for sale right now. If I just hadn't have purchased another guitar, I would have! But given that I like my wife, I decided against it. I don't think the scale will be a huge issue for you with those hands. My reach is 8.5 inches and I play a couple 658mm scale guitars with no issues. The reach is barely noticeable. In first position you notice it a little. But, not too much. Just think that back in the 60's and 70's a lot more people were playing on the longer scales and evolution has not shrunk our hands in the last 30 or 40 years.

I think people are making far too much of a big deal over that book that says what scale guitar you should play. If you play it enough you will get used to it! Everyone isn't burning their Ramirez 1A's because a book says they aren't supposed to play that scale! The Yamaha nut will likely be 52mm, so it won't be the monster 54mm. But, even that you can get used to if you play it enough. It may feel awkward at first, but your muscles will get used to the positioning and the difference. It was noticeable to me for a while and my muscles had that slight irritated burning sensation (just take it easy and don't overdo it at first). The more I played the longer scales it just became normal. If I am playing a song with crazy stretches I can always switch over to something 650mm. As of yet, I have not had to do that.

However, the wife is a different story! You are on your own there! hahaha..
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

Polifemo de Oro

Re: 664 scale length

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:50 am

A few years ago, I put down my Ramirez 1A because it just became so hard to play (scale; ridiculously high action; width of fingerboard). A lot of this disenchantment I blamed partly, but significantly, on its 664mm scale.

Recently, I had an opportunity to play a guitar (664mm), which a dealer insisted that I play. I had a lot of trepidation about this guitar on account of its scale and I refused, at first, to even take delivery of this instrument. Then, I relented. It was a very telling experience for me. I found that it was much easier to play than I had anticipated. It had a nice action, and although it had a longer scale and wider nut than what I play currently, I found that I even enjoyed having a little bit of extra room on the fingerboard. So, I guess the moral of the story is that scale is not the end-all when considering a guitar to purchase and that there are many factors that determine the playability of the instrument. For my part, going forward, I won't automatically discount a 664mm guitar as I had been doing in recent years. You might overlook some absolute gems otherwise.

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HNLim
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by HNLim » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:05 am

edcat7 wrote:I can't get Alan's Yamaha out of my head. There are so many good reasons for me not to get it, most of all I think it may be a stretch too far. My stretch is 9-9.5"

Are there any guys in the UK with a 664 (preferably within a couple of hours drive from London)? If so may I come round to see it fits my hands?

Alternatively I hope Alan sells his guitar quickly and put me out of this misery. :)

Ed
Even if Alan manages to sell off his guitar, you will regret it for the rest of your life. My heart was never at ease since the day I saw the Yamaha GC30A in 1975 at the Yamaha Showroom in Singapore. At that time, US$1/- = S$3/-. The list price then was S$12,000/- for a Yamaha GC30A. Way out of reach for a young man serving out his duty with the military on a S$250/- pm salary. It took me almost 40 years to take that nagging irritation out of my mind till I bought one. Spare yourself that agony. I too have a 9.5" stretch.

I always remember this saying: "time and tide waits for no man".

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HNLim
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Re: 664 scale length

Post by HNLim » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:15 am

HNLim wrote:
edcat7 wrote:I can't get Alan's Yamaha out of my head. There are so many good reasons for me not to get it, most of all I think it may be a stretch too far. My stretch is 9-9.5"

Are there any guys in the UK with a 664 (preferably within a couple of hours drive from London)? If so may I come round to see it fits my hands?

Alternatively I hope Alan sells his guitar quickly and put me out of this misery. :)

Ed
Even if Alan manages to sell off his guitar, you will regret it for the rest of your life. My heart was never at ease since the day I saw the Yamaha GC30A in 1975 at the Yamaha Showroom in Singapore. At that time, US$1/- = S$3/-. The list price then was S$12,000/- for a Yamaha GC30A. Way out of reach for a young man serving out his duty with the military on a S$250/- pm salary. It took me almost 40 years to take that nagging irritation out of my mind till I bought one. Spare yourself that agony. I too have a 9.5" stretch.

I always remember this saying: "time and tide waits for no man".
After making this post, I took out my meter long steel ruler and I was amazed that my Yamaha CG30A has a scale length of 664mm as well. I didn't even realized this as I have never bothered to measure its scale length before. I cannot even tell the difference while playing it.

Ed, another quote for you: "strike while the iron is hot".

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