Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

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Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.

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bergmann
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by bergmann » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:32 pm

The bass C half note in bar one and three (beat three) cannot be held full time - I would make it a quarter note making it equivalent with beat one.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 pm

bergmann wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:32 pm
The bass C half note in bar one and three (beat three) cannot be held full time - I would make it a quarter note making it equivalent with beat one.
Thanks - I should have spotted that!

I start with what the piano score's note values in the hope that I can keep them, but then have to inevitably make compromises
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PeteJ
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by PeteJ » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:13 pm

It's certainly much more readable now. I have not tried playing it but to me it looks awkward, a piano part transcribed rather than arranged. I tend to see such parts as unrewarding. Are all these notes necessary for a gtr accompaniment? If I was asked to accompany a singer for this song I would not play all these notes. I share your suspicion that it is unnecessarily fiddly.

It wouldn't be difficult to simplify it. For instance, in bar 1 the top part could be open G and B going to D and F#. Using the open strings allows a much smoother progression. If you leave the C out on the third beat then the G and E will be open strings and it'll much easier to get up to VIII position for the following C. Or the top C on beat three could be left out and the dotted C to B played the third string. And so on.

As it is I think it might take a very good player to provide a smooth and flowing support for the voice.
Last edited by PeteJ on Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CathyCate
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by CathyCate » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:32 pm

Adrian
Thanks for bringing back some very fond memories of my Mom, who was quite a fan of this song and other music by this composer.
I have only done a few arrangements to accompany singers, but I agree with PeteJ. The vocalist can take full responsibility for the melodic line. As a collaborator, the guitarist can serve a supportive role with helpful harmony and the occasional embellishment or echo.
If this were jazz, the name of the game would be to stay out of the vocalist's territory even moreso. Good Luck with your venture and thank you again for reprising a treasure;-)
Cathy
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by Adrian Allan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:41 pm

Thanks for the input

Sorry, I should have made it more clear; The aim was to be faithful to the piano original - it is a transcription, not an arrangement. Everything, including the marking, is to be as close as possible to the original piano-vocal score, which does tend to melodically support the singer and I don't want to over simplify the textures.
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PeteJ
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by PeteJ » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:32 pm

Ah. My mistake.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by Adrian Allan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:22 pm

No not really a mistake at all - it is good to have your input.

I will put a note in the preface along the lines of "I have tried to present all/ most of the notes, but feel free to simplify at will"

I am also reproducing all of the original score markings, even when there are inconsistencies.

Basically, I have done most of the ground work, and performers can make any changes they wish to. Nobody would have attempted to play these pieces from a piano-vocal score in Db major.
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Does this score look unnecessarily hard?

Post by Adrian Allan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:41 pm

This is what the preface says (at the last edit)

"The songs in the current volume were selected to represent the very best examples of the genre of the parlour song. They have been arranged for guitar and voice from the original piano-vocal editions. In the interests of authenticity, all of the original markings for tempo, dynamics and expression are exactly the same as on the original song-sheet. It was the norm to produce the songs in multiple keys to suit the range of the vocalist. In this book, guitar-friendly key signatures have been chosen; avoiding multiple flats. A vocal range is offered that can be performed by the majority of singers - all of the songs sit within the range of G below middle C, to the E on the top space of the staff, with the exception of a solitary high F in Roses of Picardy. Male singers will perform the songs an octave below this range.

The piano allows up to ten notes to be played simultaneously, the guitar only six (if strummed), or four if plucked. The aim was to, wherever possible, reproduce the original piano accompaniment – the emphasis being on transcription rather than arrangement. Compromises have been made to the often thick chordal texture of these songs. However, the general harmonic intent has been maintained. Chords have generally been kept in the same inversion bass-lines have been maintained wherever possible. The exact voicings have been adapted to suit the idiomatic nature of the guitar. The guitarist may want to simplify further still – these arrangements act as a reasonably authentic starting point for a performance. "
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