Paco Castillo 204

Paynie
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Paco Castillo 204

Post by Paynie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:54 am

Hello Everyone,

I have an early PC 204 which appears to be solid rosewood. Current 204's are laminated, and I wonder if mine is laminated too?

Any ideas ?

Regards,

Keith

simonm
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by simonm » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:52 pm

I was under the impression that the difference between the 204 and the 205 from day one was that one is laminated and the other not. By the accounts I have seen here, especially back when the PC brand was launched, both are very nice guitars. It is extremely difficult to tell a well done laminate from a solid wood just by looking at it.

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 pm

In summer 2012 I was taking under serious consideration buying a Paco Castillo guitar, and I have exchanged a number of email letters with Mr. Luis Julia - one of the owners of the Paco Castillo brand, son of famous Master Jaime Julia Abad. During most enlightening email conversation I have been asking Mr. Luis Julia on lamination and here is what he wrote to me (6 Aug 2012):
...204 lamination, In 204 guitar we are using laminated indian rosewood, it is double laminated, I mean 0.7 mm layer of Indian rosewood in the middle calabo wood 1 mm and othe layer of indian rosewood of 0.5 mm.

Lamination is made like this, is made putting into a hot press indian rosewood - glue - calabo - glue - indian rosewood,  after hot press go down and after 20-30 minutes laminated is done, for sides process is same but is used a side shaped press instead of a flat press that is used for backs....

So it is as @Simonm says above, including very positive opinions on both - 204 and all solid wood, their top, 205 models. The 240 model is also all solid wood just the wood used in model 205 is of another quality and/or is seasoned longer if I am not mistaken here.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

Paynie
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by Paynie » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:36 am

Gentlemen, many thanks for your responses. The reason I asked, is that as far as I can see, the internal grain appears to match the external grain. Your comments confirm that this is obviously not the case, but I did wonder !!
Thanks again for your attention and advice.
Kindest Regards.
Keith

simonm
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by simonm » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:27 pm

Paynie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:36 am
… the internal grain appears to match the external grain. ...
This is why I said it is extremely difficult to tell the difference.

Veneer comes in bundles of consecutive cuts much like having a pile of very thin book matched back and sides like used for a solid wood guitar. If you pull out 4 consecutive slices and flip one pair over, you effectively get a book match. The when you glue up you make sure that you respect the order of these "show" pieces when you put in the middle layer(s) which will likely be perpendicular to the grain of the "show" pieces and from a different timber. There are different ways of cutting veneer so that will play a role too but with really well done veneer work it is ultra difficult to see the difference. On a guitar there are decorations or joints at all the places where you might be able to see the layers.

The larger guitar producers by large amounts of timber so can get the veneer optimized for their purposes. There is a lot to be said for laminates. The only "issue" is that the major producers created a marketing model that equated laminate with "cheap" and at the bottom of the market used very cheap plywoods including for the tops. People who produce top end guitars with "laminated" sides (often just two pieces not three) therefore use terminally such as double sided to avoid the connotations of lower quality that some people still associate with laminates.

Don't let the fact that the 204 has laminates bother you. Enjoy it as a very good guitar. When PC came on the market first the prices were almost give away in places so a lot of people got really superb value. Sorry I didn't buy one.

Paynie
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by Paynie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Hello Simonm,
Many thanks for your reply ! Most informative.
I am delighted with the instrument, but did wonder about it's construction. The current spec. states "laminated", but the grain is such a good match I wondered if the earlier models were solid. I now know why !
Apologies for my late response, but I was away until the 20th.
Thanks again,
Keith.

simonm
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by simonm » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:38 pm

The ultimate way of finding out is to drill a hole. A bit too radical for most owners … :-)

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Paco Castillo 204

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 pm

If the question of laminated - or not - sides and back in the Paco Castillo guitar model 204 is still unclear, let me humbly turn your attention to my post from 30 November 2017 in this thread. The reason is that I quote there information from Mr. Luis Julia who is one of the owners of the Paco Castillo brand (and one of sons of Master Jaime Julia Abad - the founder (with his sons) of the Paco Castillo brand - the key figure in this story)
http://guitarraspacocastillo.com/en/historia,

we shall also find there short info on Mr. Luis Julia:
...Luis Julia was Alhambra’s engineer from 2004 – 2009 and, apart from directing and controlling the production process, he designed all the n
ew models of guitars launched by the Company since 2002, such as ‘Crossover’ series, the professional line, the 8Fp, 4F, Requintos CW, Antifeedback etc,
He also collaborated with the Universidad Politécnica de Valencia (Valencia Technical University) and the Universidade do Porto (Porto University of Portugal) in investigative projects Which resulted in improvements in a series of guitar models. He was also the driving force and computer programmer behind the introduction of numerical control machines...

In case of any doubt every interested person is also kindly suggested to contact Paco Castillo - the email adress is at their web pages.
http://guitarraspacocastillo.com/en/contacts

With my best

Jacek A. Rochacki
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

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