Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

djqsrv
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Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:40 am

Yup another what guitar should I get thread. :)

I recently started back to playing after a long layoff. When I started with classical guitar a few years ago I started with a Cordoba C5 but upgraded pretty quickly to a Johnny Walker guitar. I sold the Walker during my layoff. It just felt wrong to have such a nice guitar not being played. Well I’m now back at it and using my old c5 but wanting to upgrade again. This time I want to keep things a little bit more reasonable price wise.
My local stores only carry low end instruments so trying before I buy is tough. It looks like this will be an online purchase from a store with a good return policy if I get a dud.
I originally set myself a budget under $1000 but am willing to stretch it a little for a solid wood guitar. So can I get your thoughts and recomindations on the following 3 guitars in spruce.
Cordoba c10
Kremona romida
Yamaha GC22
I was first thinking the Cordoba as I like my c5. It’s a great guitar for the price but I recently looked at a c9 at my local SA store that was very disappointing. I know that’s not a good representation of all the new cordobas but the workmanship seemed very off on this one.
There is a bunch of clips on YouTube with a romida that sounds pretty nice. I don’t know much about the Yamaha except that they make solid dependable guitars.
I like guitars on the clearer side with good note separation. I hate when things get muddy and tubby.
What one would you go with and why?
If I upped the budget and included a Picado 53 or Hanika 54pf or Hanika 52af would they be hands down winners against the others.
I would prefer not to stretch the budget that far but if it’s night and day kind of better maybe I should. I absolutely love the look of the Hanika with maple. :)

Thanks in advance.
Daniel
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

Philosopherguy
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:18 am

I haven't played all those guitars, only the Cordoba, Yamaha and another model of Picado. But, if I had to choose based on what I know, I would put my money on the Yamaha. I have played a number of GC22's and they have all been quite good. The Yamaha's have a balanced sound and offer a nice warm tone. From the Yamaha's, I would go cedar over spruce. If you can up your budget a little more, go with the Yamaha GC32.

Just one opinion.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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Beowulf
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by Beowulf » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:44 pm

+1 for the GC32S/C: made at the Tenryu Custom Shop in Hammamatsu, Japan. Here is a good example of the sound difference between the cedar and spruce models (accomplished guitarist Ekachai Jearakul...though the language is Thai): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUc47uC-1AA
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:27 pm

So the gc32 is really that much of an upgrade over the GC22. Hmmm.
This is what happened to me last time and how I ended up with the Walker. This is a slippery slope I would rather not go down this time.
So one vote for the GC22 so far.
Any other opinions on the c10, romida, GC22.
I was slightly leaning towards the romida over the Cordoba at first with the Yamaha in third. Now I have only played the cg series of Yamaha’s but never really liked their sound so admittedly that is biasing me on the GC22.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

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Beowulf
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by Beowulf » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:39 pm

Okee dokee...here's a review of the GC22S/C by the same guitarist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFydCiM5Bvc

And just the GC22C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBKQ3-JKPk

At least these give some impression of the character and differences between spruce and cedar.

In the end it will be up to your ears and musical preferences.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:36 pm

I wish I could play them all then decide but that’s not going to happen around here. So I would like to do as much research and get as much feedback as I can before choosing the first one to order.
I played a Cordoba C7 and kremona f65c at my local guitar center. I enjoyed both. The Cordoba felt comfortable under my fingers as it’s the same neck profile of the c5 I have been playing. The kremona has a thicker neck but also felt comfortable as I do have big hands. I liked the sound of both of them. The kremona maybe a little more but that could have been the strings as they seemed fresher. I also played a Yamaha CG162 and it sounded very dull to my ears. It was a heavier built guitar then the others so that may be the cause. It also seemed that the finish was very thick. Shined nice though.
Anyone have experience with the romida? I would love to get some feedback on it.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:37 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:36 pm
I wish I could play them all then decide but that’s not going to happen around here. So I would like to do as much research and get as much feedback as I can before choosing the first one to order.
I played a Cordoba C7 and kremona f65c at my local guitar center (the highest level classical s they had). I enjoyed both. The Cordoba felt comfortable under my fingers as it’s the same neck profile of the c5 I have been playing. The kremona has a thicker neck but also felt comfortable as I do have big hands. I liked the sound of both of them. The kremona maybe a little more but that could have been the strings as they seemed fresher. I also played a Yamaha CG162 and it sounded very dull to my ears. It was a heavier built guitar then the others so that may be the cause. It also seemed that the finish was very thick. Shined nice though.
Anyone have experience with the romida? I would love to get some feedback on it.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

Philosopherguy
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:34 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:36 pm
I wish I could play them all then decide but that’s not going to happen around here. So I would like to do as much research and get as much feedback as I can before choosing the first one to order.
I played a Cordoba C7 and kremona f65c at my local guitar center. I enjoyed both. The Cordoba felt comfortable under my fingers as it’s the same neck profile of the c5 I have been playing. The kremona has a thicker neck but also felt comfortable as I do have big hands. I liked the sound of both of them. The kremona maybe a little more but that could have been the strings as they seemed fresher. I also played a Yamaha CG162 and it sounded very dull to my ears. It was a heavier built guitar then the others so that may be the cause. It also seemed that the finish was very thick. Shined nice though.
Anyone have experience with the romida? I would love to get some feedback on it.
The sound difference between the GC and the CG series is very significant. It's impossible to judge the GC's on the sound of the CG's. Very different guitars.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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souldier
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by souldier » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:51 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:40 am

I like guitars on the clearer side with good note separation. I hate when things get muddy and tubby.
What one would you go with and why?
If this is what you're looking for, hands down go with the Yamaha. I've played the Yamaha GC12, 22 and 32. They all have that signature Yamaha sound which is clear, lively, respsonsive and balanced from string to string. What I didn't like too much about the GC12 and 22 is that though they were clear and responsive, the tone lacked refinement and beauty, sounding a bit cheap to me. The GC32 on the other hand had the same clarity and response, but had a more alluring tone. I do imagine the GC12/22 would sound better if I was able to take it home and play it for several weeks since they were brand new with no playing time on them. Take note that the GC32 is made in Japan while the other two are not. If I were you, I'd patiently wait for a used GC32 to show up on the market within your budget. Just doing a quick search, you can find a GC32 for under $1400. Yamaha is pretty consistent with their quality especially if its made in Japan, so you'd be sure you're getting a good instrument even if you have to buy blindly online.

As someone mentioned above, don't judge the Yamaha GC series based on the CG series. Totally different worlds.

The Cordoba C10 will have a warmer more traditional tone with bigger, bolder basses and round trebles. This can be perceived as muddy to some however. I love the playability of the Cordoba's due to their thin C shaped neck profile.
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djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:20 am

I was just remembering that when I ended up buying the Walker some years back a Navarro student was also on my list.
This falls right in my original budget. Yes some of the materials are cheaper ie rosewood fingerboard instead of ebony but those differences aside. How would that guitar compare to everything that has been talked about above?
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by Ramon Amira » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:16 pm

Of the three you mention, the Yamaha is easily the best - don't even think about the other two. The Navarro Student model is better than the Yamaha, but costs a little more.

Since your budget is a consideration, and since you're just getting started again, I think the Yamaha would be your best bet.

Ramon
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djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Thanks for all the advice. I am very surprised at the recommendations of the Yamaha over the others. I know they make incredibly well made instruments at each price point but every one I have ever played (admittedly most have been steel string) have been in the dead sounding side of the spectrum. I owned an all solid wood steel string Yamaha for many years but sold it off as soon as I got my Martin d18. So my past experiences with Yamaha mood get make it hard for me to make the leap. I’m spreading out my local search for a place that may have one so I can try it but so far no luck.

Ramon
When I purchased the Walker I was considering the Navarro based allot on your recommendation at the time. So between the Yamaha and the Navarro you would say Navarro? Also in doing my research I see in the past that you recommended the Cordoba many times to people. Could you elaborate on what has changed with these guitars over the past few years to make you change your recommendations? I think I may understand about the Cordoba as the ones I am seeing at guitar center and Sam ash now seem a good bit lower in quality then they were back when I bought mine. The headstock carvings for example are very rough on the new ones. Almost like it was done with a rough file then never sanded smooth and this was the way it was on the c5, c7 and c9. The c9 was the worse actually. My cheap c5 from almost 10 years ago is smoothly finished.
The Navarro sounds to me like it should be a slam dunk at this price range over the others. It has consistently good reviews on this sight. The only reason I did not go with it last time was I upped my budget to include quite a few more used luthier made guitars.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

djqsrv
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by djqsrv » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:37 pm

So I took a bit of a road trip today to visit an independent music store in my area. Well it was a bit out of my area hence the road trip. I read that they were one of the largest Yamaha dealers in the area so I was hoping that I might get a chance to try a gc22 and maybe a gc32. Unfortunately the highest level guitar they had was a cg192s. So after getting over my initial disappointment that I drove over an hour for a Chinese made Yamaha I took it off the wall and gave it a try. At first sight the craftsmanship was wonderful for an instrument in this price range and compared to the cordobas it was in a different league. But what I didn’t expect was how good the guitar sounded. It was tight and articulate but still with a nice sweetness to the sound. The big downside was its volume. It was on the quiet side. Maybe I should have purchased it but I’m still holding out for an all solid wood but it definitely made me think differently about Yamaha.
One thing this road trip did was make me exclude Cordoba from my options. I also visited the guitar center that was in that area and between the 2 shops and my local stores I have now tried a 2017 c5, c7 and a c9 and all of them were pretty bad. My almost 10 year old Cordoba was miles better then any of these. The workmanship was not good on any of them and the rosewood they are using on the fretboards is horrible both in looks and feel. It was rough on all of them. I guess I could still try a c10 and if it’s not good just return it but at this point after what I have seen from them I don’t know if I would want to even try.
So right now my top 2 are the Yamaha gc22 and a Navarro student. I know I can burchsse the Yamaha from a store with a 100% return policy. I need to check if I will have the same with the Navarro. But from what clips I can find of the two online I’m leaning towards the Yamaha. The couple clips of the Navarro I can find just don’t sound that great to me.
I would still love to get my hands on a romida as the clips on YouTube I heard sound wonderful to me.
So for now the research continues.
Thanks all.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

beanctr
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by beanctr » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:00 pm

You do realize the CG22 is also Chinese made? The GC32 is the first made in Japan guitar in the series. I own a GC192c and its a great guitar. I also had a GC32 and yes it is better, but its also about $1,200 more. R
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Re: Kremona romida vs Cordoba c10 vs Yamaha GC22

Post by bauersachs82 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:31 pm

This is a tough decision and it's really comparing very different guitars. I have a C10 Spruce but I have played on the cedar version a lot too. I have also played on a GC32 at work almost every day on lunch. The wood on the C10 seems lighter and more vibrant. It can get loud but the top seems to "distort" when played very loud. The GC32 seems more dense. It sounds darker to me and it holds up well to harder playing. The top seems to be able to handle it. The necks feel very different. The Cordoba is full and round where the Yamaha seems more flat. C vs a D profile maybe. I could be wrong.

Now the GC32 in price compares more with the C12 (which I really like). It's always hard to say which is better. It's what your preference is. Since you already have a lower end Cordoba, it might be cool to have the Yamaha to have something different.

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