Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

beanctr
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by beanctr » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm

I think fret dots would hurt resale value. I like a dot at the seventh fret, if you need more use decals. R
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Dave Stott
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by Dave Stott » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:22 pm

Whether we are talking about side dots or on the fretboard, I'm highly doubtful that their presence would harm any potential resale value.

The tradition of "classical guitars don't have dots" needs to fade away gracefully.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by Rick Beauregard » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 pm

fraim wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:22 am
Rick Beauregard wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:30 am
fraim wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:13 pm
is it a barnett rest or is steve adding it?
Not a support. An arm rest. He fabricated some prototypes from rosewood. It will attach using magnets inside the guitar and along the inside of the rest. Attached to the lower bout where your right arm rests. I use an Ergoplay or a D’Oro guitar support. I can report no impact from suction cups on Steve’s fp finish.
yep, understood. i have an arm rest on one of my guitars that kris barnett made for me...also using magnets. it's effective but a bit clunky & so am interested in what steve has in mind. i'd like an armrest for my ganz but don't want to compromise the aesthetics of my sexy "sombrio".
i also use an ergoplay support & was concerned about what the suction cups might do to the french polish finish. but to date...no issues.
My mistake then. When you said Barnett I just assumed you meant a support. I guess they’re nice too. My only concern was that the arm rest magnets are strong enough and it pops off. Any issues?

Steve has thee prototypes he’s made from really a thin piece to the more clunky version. The clunky one definitely messes with aesthetics. The others are kinda of cool. I figured since I have the elev finger board, and hybrid lattice fan, I’d go with another modern accoutrement and add the rest. No sound holes though (yet) Though Steve has experimented with those too.
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sitnivez
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by sitnivez » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:11 pm

Any time the topic of elevated fretboards come up in conversation within a group of guitarists, I find that opinions of their usefulness range from either side radically. Personally, I find them to save my life when playing beyond the 12th fret. They also make barres at the 10th position or so a lot more manageable to me. That being said, some colleagues of mine say they don't notice a difference at all when playing elevated fretboards. If you have a chance to try one out in person, it would greatly help you in making a decision. However, I have never once regretted my decision to get a raised fretboard.

-Mike

fraim
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by fraim » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:16 pm

the barnett arm rest that i have is very secure. the magnets are held in place inside the guitar with an epoxy. the metal in the arm rest snaps the rest securely in place.
i'm interested in seeing what steve has come up with.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm

I don't like elevated fretboards. They appear very often on modern style cedar guitars. I prefer traditional spruce guitars. Tried out some guitars with e.f. and did not find any benefit. Just a gimmick in my oppinion. Looks awkward too if the fretboard is very high, like on Thomas Humphrey's millenium modell. I am also biased against additional holes, so called "sound ports". There is no real improvement of the guitar since Torres, Garcia, Manuel Ramirez, Santos and Hauser I. Did the violin improve since Stradivari's death? Does any violin maker seek to build instruments which sound different from a real Strad? Probably not. Only guitarists seem to be obsessed by paying instruments with ever new inventive design features.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
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cliffbryant
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by cliffbryant » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 pm

I guess I'm old school. I don't seem to look for guitars with raised fretboards or sound ports or fretted dots......

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souldier
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by souldier » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:47 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm
I don't like elevated fretboards. They appear very often on modern style cedar guitars. I prefer traditional spruce guitars. Tried out some guitars with e.f. and did not find any benefit. Just a gimmick in my oppinion. Looks awkward too if the fretboard is very high, like on Thomas Humphrey's millenium modell. I am also biased against additional holes, so called "sound ports". There is no real improvement of the guitar since Torres, Garcia, Manuel Ramirez, Santos and Hauser I. Did the violin improve since Stradivari's death? Does any violin maker seek to build instruments which sound different from a real Strad? Probably not. Only guitarists seem to be obsessed by paying instruments with ever new inventive design features.
I also personally tend toward more traditionally built guitars, but I think it is a beautiful thing to see makers trying to "improve" or at least innovate the design of a guitar. I think it allows for more variety and options that appeal to the different needs and preferences of each player. There are plenty of players both amateur and professional who prefer these modern design features, and I think this just goes to show that we are all unique and have different preferences in the same way that we prefer different repertoire and different ways of interpreting each song. Perceived tonal quality, playability and aesthetics are all subjective matters that differ from player to player, and I think it is great that there is a variety of options to choose from. Pretty much every violin and cello looks the same and I think that is what works for that instrument and community, but I would personally be horrified if every guitar began to look uniform and strove for the exact same sound.
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zupfgeiger
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Well, don't take my remark literally. Of course not every violin sounds like a Strad, there are early Strads, late Strads and beautiful violins from other famous makers from other periods which all sound different, but still wonderful. And that's the same with the guitar. A Torres sounds different from a Hauser or a Santos etc. The traditional sound is not uniform at all. Of course the introduction of the cedar soundboard opened new ways and the introduction of double top guitars and lattice guitars as well. Who ever likes such a "modern" guitar, fitted with nomex layer, sound ports, integrated arm bevel and whatever more might have been invented by creative luthiers, should go for it. It's just not the kind of instrument I desire to play.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017

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prawnheed
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by prawnheed » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:23 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm
..... There is no real improvement of the guitar since Torres, Garcia, Manuel Ramirez, Santos and Hauser I. Did the violin improve since Stradivari's death? Does any violin maker seek to build instruments which sound different from a real Strad? Probably not. Only guitarists seem to be obsessed by paying instruments with ever new inventive design features.
I cannot agree with any of this. There have been many important and significant innovations - steel strings, electrics being huge, but even in the gut, and now nylon string world modern guitars can have significantly more volume, more sustain and clarity.

Violins have also evolved. Most stradivarii, if not all, have been adapted too - I doubt he'd even recognise his own work in most of them. There are also modern makers usin new materials and construction techniques. I also once read, but have forgotten where, a study where they compared a strad with a modern violin and in a blind test most of the professinal violinists preferred the sound of the modern instrument. They strad fad is more of a collector driven phenomenon if you ask me.

Yes, there are some traditionalists both on the constructor and consumer side, but there are innovators in every field. It is true that innovation often goes in bursts - real breakthroughs are few and far between and there are many false hopes (elevated fretboards belong in that basket as far as I am concerned too), but the guitar will continue to evolve.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Elevated fretboard, fretted dots

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:42 pm

prawnheed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:23 pm
zupfgeiger wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:41 pm
..... There is no real improvement of the guitar since Torres, Garcia, Manuel Ramirez, Santos and Hauser I. Did the violin improve since Stradivari's death? Does any violin maker seek to build instruments which sound different from a real Strad? Probably not. Only guitarists seem to be obsessed by paying instruments with ever new inventive design features.
I cannot agree with any of this. There have been many important and significant innovations - steel strings, electrics being huge, but even in the gut, and now nylon string world modern guitars can have significantly more volume, more sustain and clarity.

Violins have also evolved. Most stradivarii, if not all, have been adapted too - I doubt he'd even recognise his own work in most of them. There are also modern makers usin new materials and construction techniques. I also once read, but have forgotten where, a study where they compared a strad with a modern violin and in a blind test most of the professinal violinists preferred the sound of the modern instrument. They strad fad is more of a collector driven phenomenon if you ask me.

Yes, there are some traditionalists both on the constructor and consumer side, but there are innovators in every field. It is true that innovation often goes in bursts - real breakthroughs are few and far between and there are many false hopes (elevated fretboards belong in that basket as far as I am concerned too), but the guitar will continue to evolve.
Well said. :D

Of course we have seen technical improvements over the last 100 years in lutherie and in the equipment of musicians. And of course old instruments come to a point one day that they have to be restored. That's not what I was talking about. I just don't see how the guitar should further develop - for which purpose and to which point? Double tops and lattice were among the real innovations you were talking about. Let's not get into this old discussion. But my conclusion is that the only improvement is additional loudness - at the expense of tonal beauty and variability.

As to the violin: I have seen other tests and their outcome has always been the same. There might have been new violins which ranked in front of a Strad in a blind test. But those are violins which come as close to a Strad as possible. Those violin builders are most successful who make their instruments sound like an old one. Some even treat their new instruments in a way that it looks as a vintage instrument. That makes it more desirable and more expensive.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017

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