Hand size and nut width and spacing

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by nmshu1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:31 pm

May I know your left hand span? String length/scale used, your nut width and its spacing?

Want to collect info and find something about general relationship among hand span, nut width, string spacing at nut.
Last edited by nmshu1 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:01 am, edited 6 times in total.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

ashepps
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:06 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by ashepps » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:08 pm

Hi,

I have a small hands and for years I played with a good guitar that I bought new. Like me the music store manager probable never heard of the scale length or would have never sold the guitar to me with my small frame at 5'6", 130 pounds!

It was a beautiful sounding guitar, but I always had the feeling that perhaps it was too big for me. I had nothing to compare it with or no internet to discuss as this was back in the 70's. I was young and did not know enough to ask questions.

It was not until I got back at the guitar after a 35 year break and learned on this forum what my problem was!

Right away I knew that my 663 mm was far too long and since sold that guitar and purchased a second hand full body 630 mm I am happy, although I feel I may have had a better feeling with a 615 mm!

To me it was not the nut, I did not mind the over 2" wide nut on the 663 mm nor my 630 mm at just 2" nor the slightly less, I think, my Yamaha Silent Guitar.

The big thing was what I gained or I should say lost in the shorter scale guitar. It was not much, but it felt a heck of a lot better. It is surprising to me just what an inch or so shorter felt to me!

I can't add anymore than this, there are 2 or 3 threads on this same topic on the forum that can be viewed if you look for them, perhaps that is why you may be getting no responses.

Good luck,

Alan
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by nmshu1 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:02 am

ashepps wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:08 pm
Hi,

I have a small hands and for years I played with a good guitar that I bought new. Like me the music store manager probable never heard of the scale length or would have never sold the guitar to me with my small frame at 5'6", 130 pounds!

It was a beautiful sounding guitar, but I always had the feeling that perhaps it was too big for me. I had nothing to compare it with or no internet to discuss as this was back in the 70's. I was young and did not know enough to ask questions.

It was not until I got back at the guitar after a 35 year break and learned on this forum what my problem was!

Right away I knew that my 663 mm was far too long and since sold that guitar and purchased a second hand full body 630 mm I am happy, although I feel I may have had a better feeling with a 615 mm!

To me it was not the nut, I did not mind the over 2" wide nut on the 663 mm nor my 630 mm at just 2" nor the slightly less, I think, my Yamaha Silent Guitar.

The big thing was what I gained or I should say lost in the shorter scale guitar. It was not much, but it felt a heck of a lot better. It is surprising to me just what an inch or so shorter felt to me!

I can't add anymore than this, there are 2 or 3 threads on this same topic on the forum that can be viewed if you look for them, perhaps that is why you may be getting no responses.

Good luck,

Alan
I think many people change scales by having another guitar......More popular they change actions......but not many people change nuts for changing strings' spacings
Last edited by nmshu1 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

ashepps
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:06 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by ashepps » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:41 am

I don't have the luxury to change guitars to accommodate what I want except for the sale of one good guitar for another, period. I can recall having to sell my Martin D28 in order to purchase my first good classical guitar, I only wish I could have kept that Martin, it was the best acoustic guitar that I ever had in my hands!

I see you have 8 guitars and I would bet that you have a fair amount of money tied up in these, time to unload unless you are a collector!

My second guitar listed is just a plywood top "beginner's guitar" that I started off with a hundred years ago and the silent guitar was a cheap way to allow me to make a racquet without disturbing people. BTW, the silent guitar has a smaller nut, but I easily adjust to the string spacing.

String spacing is a common topic on other threads, but I found that once you play the instrument you can get used to it. My daughters beginner guitar, a 590 mm (I think) gave me no problems and as I said before I now may have preferred a 615 mm instead of the 630 mm, but at least my 630 has a full sized body whereas the 616 is scaled down and the 590 is tiny!

I can't comment on the rest of your response, sorry.

Cheers - Alan
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by nmshu1 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:16 pm

Deleted
Last edited by nmshu1 on Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

ashepps
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:06 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by ashepps » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:42 pm

Unfortunately my abilities and savings do not match yours judging by your guitar collection!

I am glad to have what I feel I need.
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Re: Hand size corresponded to nut width and strings spacing at nut

Post by nmshu1 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:22 pm

ashepps wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:42 pm
Unfortunately my abilities and savings do not match yours judging by your guitar collection!

I am glad to have what I feel I need.
Here we focus on the relation among scale/string length, nut width/string spacing and hand size.
If 650/52/42 is mainly for left hand span 21-23,
then 640/?/? Is mainly for 19-21,
630/?/? Is mainly for 17-19
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

Scott Phillips
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by Scott Phillips » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 am

I’ll play along.
My hand span is, from thumb to pinky: 23cm
From index to pinky is: 17.5 cm
Fingers are 8cm index, 9cm middle, 8cm ring, and pinky 6.5cm

I had posted this info in a previous thread, but I had measured wrong for that one.

I currently play a 650. And had a 655mm which I liked the best. I’ve also played a 640, which makes certain stretches easier. It’s nut was only 50 mm. My current guitar’s nut is 52mm. I’m not sure of the string spacing. It’s a Yamaha CG192S.

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by nmshu1 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:02 pm

My hand span is from thumb to pinky: 18.5-19.5
From index to pinky: 14-14.5
Index: 6.5 cm, middle: 7 cm, ring: 6.5, pinky: 5cm

I made various nuts with the support of a local luthier. I prefer to nut 50, spacing at nut 40 currently.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

ashepps
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:06 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by ashepps » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:00 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 am
I’ll play along. My hand span is, from thumb to pinky: 23cm From index to pinky is: 17.5 cm Fingers are 8cm index, 9cm middle, 8cm ring, and pinky 6.5cm I had posted this info in a previous thread, but I had measured wrong for that one. I currently play a 650. And had a 655mm which I liked the best. I’ve also played a 640, which makes certain stretches easier. It’s nut was only 50 mm. My current guitar’s nut is 52mm. I’m not sure of the string spacing. It’s a Yamaha CG192S.
=======

Laudiesdad69,

My is thumb to pinky 20.5 cm, index to pinky 17. Similar to yours just a but smaller.

My 663 mm scale was a 1972 top of the line Yamaha Grand Concert, GC-20D and an expensive guitar for me when I bought it nee. It was the cost of my 1970 Martin D28 that I had to sell in order to buy it. I could not afford two guitars.

The Yamaha had the 663 mm scale and the nut was 52 mm wide and I did not find that bad just the scale length.

My 630 mm Asturius is a 1986 model and has a 2" nut as does my 650 mm Yamaha silent guitar.

Alan
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

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Tomzooki
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Location: Quebec city, Canada

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by Tomzooki » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:40 pm

My thumb to pinky span is slightly below 8’’; I have small hands.
But I have another issue: I have great difficulties with « vertical extensions » between my 3rd and 4th finger, even after years of work it remained a challenge for me to put the 3 on the 6th string and the 4 on the first. I was playing a 52mm nut standard size guitar. Now I own a Stauffer copy, with a 48mm nut, and a 607mm scale. It is paradise! I no longer feel like I am fighting with my instrument :D

For those like me that fight to play on a standard 650/52 guitar, and to whom others say that it is better to work hard and get used to the standard size guitar than to play on smaller size guitar, with a lot of seemingly good reasons, ask yourself: why should you be condemned to fight with your big guitar, obviously facing bigger physical challenges than the big guys and girls have to deal with? For us little people a standard size guitar is less comfortable to play, and there is a multitude of resulting downsides: less pleasure to play, musical expression hindered by unnessecary physical difficulties, back pain resulting from holding the big body guitar (my case, resolved by my small body Stauffer), overall we obviously would play better on a smaller guitar. Yes, the tone of a smaller body guitar is not the same (personnally I prefer it, prefered it even before owning one), but I think it is a small price to pay. If you do not plan to become an international contest winner and/or an internationally acclaimed virtuoso, why stick to big torture instruments?
Miodrag Zerdoner 8 string Stauffer-Legnani
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

seatea64
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:24 pm
Location: Louisville, KY, US

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by seatea64 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:27 pm

Tomzooki wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:40 pm
My thumb to pinky span is slightly below 8’’; I have small hands.
But I have another issue: I have great difficulties with « vertical extensions » between my 3rd and 4th finger, even after years of work it remained a challenge for me to put the 3 on the 6th string and the 4 on the first. I was playing a 52mm nut standard size guitar. Now I own a Stauffer copy, with a 48mm nut, and a 607mm scale. It is paradise! I no longer feel like I am fighting with my instrument :D
I, too, have small hands, slightly smaller than Tomzooki's at 7.5" span. I love the tone of my Hill Munich, which is 650/50, and after working with it I can reach a lot I never thought I would, but that last 10% or so was still troubling to me. So, I bought (at a bargain) a New World Player series with 615/48. Mostly, its a joy to play. of course I can reach many things I can't on the Hill, but the narrower fingerboard means I have to be much more careful not to accidentally touch another string with my left hand fingers. I'm getting buzzing or muting from strings I don't intend to play. I guess I need to practice more with it, but I really love the sound of the Munich. I suppose it's great that my life is so full of difficult choices :) .
2000 Kenny Hill Munich
2017 Hill New World Player 615

nmshu1
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:16 am
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by nmshu1 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:39 pm

I try to find the special relationship to improve the playability....especially for smaller hands...
Maybe from statistics, we can find something to improve our ease of play...
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, C/BRW; Córdoba C9 650, C/MH
Paulino Bernabe Torres 645, S/MP
Juan Hernandez Torres 640, S/IRW, Sweet Tone 640, S/RWLam
German V. Rubio Concert 635, S/MP; German V. Rubio Estudio 635, S/PE
Kenny Hill Performance 630, DT/MP

celestemcc
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by celestemcc » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:13 pm

For those like me that fight to play on a standard 650/52 guitar, and to whom others say that it is better to work hard and get used to the standard size guitar than to play on smaller size guitar, with a lot of seemingly good reasons, ask yourself: why should you be condemned to fight with your big guitar, obviously facing bigger physical challenges than the big guys and girls have to deal with? For us little people a standard size guitar is less comfortable to play, and there is a multitude of resulting downsides: less pleasure to play, musical expression hindered by unnessecary physical difficulties, back pain resulting from holding the big body guitar (my case, resolved by my small body Stauffer), overall we obviously would play better on a smaller guitar. Yes, the tone of a smaller body guitar is not the same (personnally I prefer it, prefered it even before owning one), but I think it is a small price to pay. If you do not plan to become an international contest winner and/or an internationally acclaimed virtuoso, why stick to big torture instruments?
Hear hear! And you don't necessarily compromise sound for smaller scale.
2015 Connor spruce/Indian rosewood
1978 Ramirez 1a cedar

ashepps
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:06 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Hand size and nut width and spacing

Post by ashepps » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:58 pm

[/quote] Hear hear! And you don't necessarily compromise sound for smaller scale.[/quote]

Hi Celeste!

Still at it, good to see.

I may not have stopped playing back in the early 80s if I had a salesman that new what he was doing. He made a sale by selling me a guitar far to big for me but far too big for me and I quit after 5 - 10 years and lost the last 35-40 years because of it.

This is more for everyone else here, not you! :)

Alan
Alan Sheppard
1986 630mm Asturias JM-15 Spruce
1955 650mm Framus SL-32R
2015 650mm Yamaha SLG110N

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