This guitar costs $15,000

Dirck Nagy
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Dirck Nagy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:31 am

Aw, come on David, don't be so grumpy! Cheer up! Christmas will be over soon!
David Norton wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:44 am
... A clear bit of faceted rock goes for a huge price per carat, wholly disproportionate to its physical size. ...
...but much more proportional to its scarcity and properties...
David Norton wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:44 am
Ana Vidovic can command high dollar concert fees, and get them, by playing repertoire which was well-trodden 40 years ago and which can technically be played on any given evening by a large number of University undergrads, and played with equal facility. But there's only one Ana Vidovic, so again: it's a matter of supply (1 Ana) and demand (100s or 1000s of venues).
No, its what she DOES with that "well-trodden" repertoire which makes it so valuable at that particular time and place. Theres more to music than the notes.

cheers!
dirck

Dirck Nagy
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Dirck Nagy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:33 am

Steve Ganz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:30 am
Machete,
I think I should help you. I read your introduction and first few posts and see that you are new to the forum, and to playing classical, and your guitars are sort of beginner guitars.
There is no shame in any of that. And your initial disbelief that guitars could cost so much is understandable from youir perspective. I think that there have been a few excellent responses to your initial post. I also think that when you say something is not worth X, it should be clarified, that it is not worth X to you. That way no person or their work is being put down.
Best post here so far

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Arduous
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Arduous » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:35 am

I recently bought a classical guitar for 35k. To me it's worth every penny.
The market sets the price.
If the guitar sells at 35k.....why not?
It means it must be worth that to someone.
15k is not all that much all things considered in classical construction, materials, customs, shipping etc. etc.
There are many more factors in this than I know.

If the OP bought a car for 15k today it may be worth 2k in 10 years. The guitar might still be worth 15 or even more.
Eye of the beholder and all that....

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CarbonElitist
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by CarbonElitist » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:45 am

No guitar sounds like $15,000. It's all in the branding or history. Torres guitars can demand thousands because of what they are. Smallmans and Wagners demand a lot because of the luthiers who made them. But my $3500 Cordoba sounds better than both. (The Smallmans and the Wagners.)
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Podobin
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Podobin » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:07 am

Halo effect. Every luthiers dream to get their instruments into this price class. The exclusivity of an elite player to drive up the value. Only a few luthiers will make it to this class. Lots of guitars out there. We are really living in a golden age of guitar building. So many good choices.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:37 am

An artist was painting on the malecon one day and a tourist passed by. The tourist asked the artist for a portrait. The artist looked annoyed, but picked up some charcoal and a sketch pad and proceeded to draw a likeness of the passer-by. After a little over 3 minutes he scribbled his name on the bottom and gave the tourist a hastily drawn picture and said, "2 million pasetas, please." The tourist was taken aback."2 million?!" he declared. "You must be crazy. It is not worth that. Why that didn't even take you 5 minutes, a little charcoal dust and some sketch paper!"

"No sir, not 5 minutes," said the artist, "it took me a lifetime."
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andreas777
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by andreas777 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:31 am

I think the Jim Redgate guitar of Ana is worth more than $15000. I've talked to Ana about her guitar and heard it various times live in concert, the last time was three days ago. The properties of this guitar is much better than any guitar in the $2000 - $3000 range.
Happiness is when what you think what you say and what you do are in harmony.

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rinneby
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by rinneby » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:57 am

Rick Beauregard wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:37 am
An artist was painting on the malecon one day and a tourist passed by. The tourist asked the artist for a portrait. The artist looked annoyed, but picked up some charcoal and a sketch pad and proceeded to draw a likeness of the passer-by. After a little over 3 minutes he scribbled his name on the bottom and gave the tourist a hastily drawn picture and said, "2 million pasetas, please." The tourist was taken aback."2 million?!" he declared. "You must be crazy. It is not worth that. Why that didn't even take you 5 minutes, a little charcoal dust and some sketch paper!"

"No sir, not 5 minutes," said the artist, "it took me a lifetime."

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This quote says it all :bravo:

/Jon
1963 - José Ramirez (A.M, Antonio Martinez)
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7 (Kono)
1989 - Antonio Marin Montero (Bouchet)
2017 - Tobias Braun (Santos Hernández, 1924)

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

Carlos
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Carlos » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:03 am

Arduous wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:35 am
I recently bought a classical guitar for 35k. To me it's worth every penny.
Hi Arduous, can I ask which is the guitar that makes you now happy? A Simplicio? A Field? A Friederich?

To machete: this is likely not a Bouchet as those are typically sold for 75k (i count in euros) :-) :-) :-)

DerekB
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by DerekB » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:47 am

Guitars are actually quite cheap compared to other instruments. 15,000 dollars would buy a violinist a decent bow. When it comes to the price of a good instrument, the sky"s the limit.
I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn... - Seasick Steve

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rojarosguitar
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:16 am

Machete wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:15 am

Apparently this so called "jim redgate" is considered one of the best luthiers in the world?
First of all, I think there is no need for this slightly contemptuous quotation of Jim Redgate's name. Ana Vidovic may have a reason having bought this guitar, and after all nobody is beating you into buying such a (relatively) expensive guitar.

Secondly, if this guitar wouldn't have this market value, he couldn't ask this price.

Thirdly, what do you know exactly about the materials used in this guitar? It looks like it might be a Brazilian Rosewood sides and back, and it can be a very expensive piece of wood by itself. Some very good pieces of BR can double or at least significantly increase the cost of the instrument.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:12 am

Welcome to this world of classical guitar Machete. You will find that just as with many things, the way people perceive value can take some getting used to.
For your information, the guitar is worth whatever the maker can get for it, in exactly the same way as any item in a market place that is better and hence more expensive than is strictly necessary, is worth what people will pay for it. It is very common that players with restricted experience have insufficient perspective to quite appreciate how the market works, and one might certainly recommend a little respect for the makers and players who have gained that perspective and understand the way this works.
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Nikos_Greek
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Nikos_Greek » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:36 am

The other thing is, given the fact that the world has not gone crazy of course, how can one educate himself to hear the subtle differences in a fine guitar. I do not like Vidovic as a musician, at least the videos I have seen her performing, but I can listen the quality in her playing, in the same fashion her guitar may be not attractive to me but I cannot denigrate its quality.

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Michael.N.
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Michael.N. » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:41 am

Some handbags for you Machete:

https://www.luxos.com/news/fashion/5260 ... -the-world

I personally think the Louis Vuitton looks like it was cobbled together by a 6 year old back in 1972 (with all due respect to 6 year olds, not so much respect for 1972). Clearly others think differently.
What applies to handbags and guitars also applies to a great many products in the world. If you want to pay serious money for what other people consider a cheap everyday item then you can. The only thing that stops people is wealth or rather the lack of it. The good news is that you don't have to pay that kind of money to enjoy (and become good) at playing the guitar. The vast majority of people don't pay that kind of money, not even close to it.
Historicalguitars.

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pogmoor
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by pogmoor » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:11 pm

DerekB wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:47 am
Guitars are actually quite cheap compared to other instruments. 15,000 dollars would buy a violinist a decent bow. When it comes to the price of a good instrument, the sky"s the limit.
Just so. None of the luthiers I've met is anything like wealthy. I don't know how many guitars Redgate makes, but if he makes 10 that would give him (allowing for costs of running his workshop and buying materials) an income that puts him just about into the range of top earners - but in a lot of other professions top earners would be doing much better!
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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