This guitar costs $15,000

Tonit
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Tonit » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:40 pm

Pat Dodson wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:19 pm
I know, I know; it’s crude and in real life you find all sorts of “exceptions that prove the rule” but maybe it helps the queries above?
It does :D
It feels like the last few miles attacking an apex where we gain less miles up for all the more efforts than before.

Cheers,

Stephen Faulk
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Stephen Faulk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 am

I think Kenyon is on to it. Woodwind players in orchestral and chamber music might have several fairly expensive axes. A good Alto sax is around $6000.00 US- but vintage and high end can go higher.

Maybe the alto player doubles on clarinet and also plays in a baroque ensemble ....and a modern flutist who also plays baroque music needs a couple wooden flutes for that era, and still another one or two for a transitional flute into classical and romantic music. I could see a pro flute player with three modern flutes and a piccolo, and a bass flute, plus two baroque flutes.
Jazz players after the work if Yousef Latif and Dolphy would play several horns , bass clarinet and alto, tenor,

It goes on. A bassoonist needs two bassoons, which in Haydn's time were called 'faggots' after a bundle of sticks. The bassoonist doing a lot work needs two or maybe three bassoons. A first bassoon modern, and a second bassoon good quality to cover for the first bassoon when it is getting worked on. Then a third bassoon to use a bong when the conductor is being a pill.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Stephen Faulk
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Stephen Faulk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:34 am

In my opinion the triangle of fast/high-quality/ cheap doesn't apply too much to guitar makers.

Most guitar makers are going to push to themselves to the limit of their ability every time they make a guitar. That means conceptually if they are exploring ideas or technique wise when trying to make clean work.

Guitar makers are driven by a different kind of process and internal standard than most contractors doing remodel work for example. In that arena you will encounter the gamut of choices between cheap and good and fast and cheap. Guitar makers are mostly going to err on the side of ' my best work' and take extra time to do it even if they lose a little money taking extra time.

The fast/ cheap/ good model has the problem when applied to guitar makers that it's an a priori that the maker will do best work.
Be Best!
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Stephen Faulk
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Stephen Faulk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:34 am

.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Tonit
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Tonit » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:47 am

MX and HNY Stephen!
I can easily imagine guitar builders are also attacking the apex, which reflects on the price to some extent.

Well you can discuss about doublers but can't generalize, or can you? My argument here is guitarists tends to have more guitars that are all instrumens of a kind, unlike doublers who requires two or more different kinds of instruments on a stage.

Tenors usually double with sopranos reasonably in the same Bb. There are popular combos I should admit, but not so often you see them doubling, even less so often a player switches from a tenor to another tenor on the same set, unlike guitarists who switch guitars without doubling and get paid a single guarantee instead of double. But again it is fairly rare to see classical or flamenco guitarists switching their instruments on a set. One consideration may be that electric guitarists need a little more preparedness for broken strings than saxophone players who can address any issue by replacing the part (neck, mouthpiece etc.) on the fly? I'm just speculating, but I have never seen any saxophone player replacing his/her instrument as a whole on a set after developing some measure issues. On the contrary, I have seen most of the cases they have extended collection of mouthpieces that they all have ready.

Stephen Faulk
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Stephen Faulk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:25 pm

I know sax players who have boudoirs full of sexy mouthpieces, and ligatures. It's a kinky profession. I messed with alto sax for a few years in jr, college and sometimes I want to buy a soprano, because if I visit home I can take it on the plane. I worry so much about guitar travel I don't even do it. I just borrow a guitar.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

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rojarosguitar
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by rojarosguitar » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:46 am

Tonit wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:58 am

While guitarists are luckier than violinists, woodwind instrumentalits appear to be even more so, especially the saxophone players are even luckier. Violins are lighter and more expensive than guitars, while saxophones are generally heaier than the guitars and more affordable. But it appears that less saxophone players collect their instruments. There might be no rule we can find.
There are collectors of vintage saxophones too. Sooner or later they turn into dealers with vintage stuff, because there also can be made good money.
Whereas a cheap factory alto saxophone from China can be had for 200 US$ (or even less), a handmade vintage Selmer Paris easily goes for 5 - 8k$ depending on serial numbers and condition. So that would be a factor of 25 at least. Translated into guitars, if you think, a good manufacture guitar could be had for 500US$ (just for the sake of comparison; I don't think you will find many good guitars at that price) the really sought after great master instruments would be 30,000US$. That could be actually too little for the most sought after Instruments but more than you actually pay for non-historical master grade instruments that are not the great collectors items.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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rojarosguitar
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by rojarosguitar » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:54 am

Tonit wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:47 am
... I have seen most of the cases they have extended collection of mouthpieces that they all have ready.
And than, a standard alto sax modern mouthpiece made from hard rubber will cost you 100-150 US$ and a good preserved most sought after vintage mouthpiece will be ten times as much. And although there is some knowledge and experience going into the finishing a mouthpiece from pre-machined parts, it's nothing compared to all the skills and all the understanding and experience a master guitar maker must summon when making his instruments (not to speak about the time and tools that are needed).

No, most guitar maker do not ask ridiculously high prices. They are rather very modest IMHO.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents
My homepage is: https://www.live-arts.de

Tonit
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Re: This guitar costs $15,000

Post by Tonit » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:24 pm

And than, a standard alto sax modern mouthpiece made from hard rubber will cost you 100-150 US$ and a good preserved most sought after vintage mouthpiece will be ten times as much.

a handmade vintage Selmer Paris easily goes for 5 - 8k$ depending on serial numbers and condition.
So your cases being discussed pertain to "vintage" where we pay for scarecity rarity or exclusivity rather than the original craftsmanship or scarecity of materials.

If you discuss about "vintage" guitars, a top-notch vintage Hauser, Torres or Bouchet goes for more than 100k compared to a "vintage" American Selmar, Keilworth or King.

A top-notch "vintage" saxophone sets you back 6k to 8k average, which you can buy a "decent" handcrafted classical guitar.
A top-notch handcrafted master grade guitar goes for 50k which oftentimes can only buy a master grade violin bow.

Doublers among horn players NEED two different kinds of instruments, whereas classical guitarists basically NEED one instrument on a stage.

There are collectors of any musical instruments, including saxes, guitars, and violins.
Among those collectors I see more of those collectors of guitars than violins, which makes sense as guitars are more affordable.
Among those collectors I also see more of those collectors of guitars than saxophones, which is a little strange as saxophones are relatively affordable than guitars.

So and so, you cannot find any trend suggesting the affordability of the instruments is affecting the collectors sentiment.

We can say "there are saxophone collectors and violin collectors" but my point is that, In my personal experience, guitar collectors are found more often than those sax or violin collectors.

Cheers,

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