Ziricote as a tonewood

powermrk
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Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by powermrk » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:37 pm

I am interesred in anyone's opinions or experiences with ziricote.
I have seen some beautiful photos, but have no idea how it sounds.
Wonder if anyone of you have the chance to play ziricote classical guitars?
How are they compared to East Indian Rosewood?
Any opinions or comparisons would be greatly appreciated!

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by GuitarsWeB » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:58 pm

David Schramm has made sever Ziricote insturments.

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dta721
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by dta721 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:50 pm

Marcus in his dominelliguitars page (my-guitars/the-right-wood) expressed in his experience Ziricote as "tonaly it is better than indian rosewood".

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by GuitarsWeB » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:15 pm

Here’s a David Schramm lattice guitar, sides and back are Ziricote
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James Lister
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by James Lister » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:58 pm

Ziricote is a beautiful tonewood, and has very good acoustic qualities. It is denser than Indian rosewood, and has quite low damping, so it is often thought to be closer to Brazilian rosewood than Indian. Unfortunately it is also similar to Brazilian in that it is prone to cracking. I have made three guitars with ziricote so far, and I have been very pleased with all of them, but to be honest, I think most customers who choose it do so because of how it looks, rather than its acoustic properties. There's nothing wrong with that of course, just be aware that the back and sides only contribute a small amount to the tone of the guitar, and you will probably pay quite a high premium for ziricote compared to Indian rosewood (and most other tonewoods).

James
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guitarseller345645
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by guitarseller345645 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:41 am

GuitarsWeB wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:15 pm
Here’s a David Schramm lattice guitar, sides and back are Ziricote
Wow!

powermrk
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by powermrk » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:05 am

James Lister wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:58 pm
Ziricote is a beautiful tonewood, and has very good acoustic qualities. It is denser than Indian rosewood, and has quite low damping, so it is often thought to be closer to Brazilian rosewood than Indian. Unfortunately it is also similar to Brazilian in that it is prone to cracking. I have made three guitars with ziricote so far, and I have been very pleased with all of them, but to be honest, I think most customers who choose it do so because of how it looks, rather than its acoustic properties. There's nothing wrong with that of course, just be aware that the back and sides only contribute a small amount to the tone of the guitar, and you will probably pay quite a high premium for ziricote compared to Indian rosewood (and most other tonewoods).

James
Hi James,
No doubt Ziricote is a beautiful tonewood but I am more interesting in its acoustic properties.
From your experience, it isn't worth to pay such amount of money to upgrade the back and sides from IR to Ziricote because there isn't MUCH difference on tone quality?

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James Lister
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by James Lister » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:10 pm

powermrk wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:05 am
Hi James,
No doubt Ziricote is a beautiful tonewood but I am more interesting in its acoustic properties.
From your experience, it isn't worth to pay such amount of money to upgrade the back and sides from IR to Ziricote because there isn't MUCH difference on tone quality?
If you're having a luthier build a guitar for you, and you have played, and like, the guitars that luthier makes, then why not spend a little more for the ziricote if that's what you want. However, I don't think you should choose a guitar just because it has ziricote back and sides, because the soundboard/strutting, and how the luthier treats them, is far more significant in determining the sound of the guitar.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

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dta721
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by dta721 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:37 pm

James Lister wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:10 pm
powermrk wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:05 am
Hi James,
No doubt Ziricote is a beautiful tonewood but I am more interesting in its acoustic properties.
From your experience, it isn't worth to pay such amount of money to upgrade the back and sides from IR to Ziricote because there isn't MUCH difference on tone quality?
If you're having a luthier build a guitar for you, and you have played, and like, the guitars that luthier makes, then why not spend a little more for the ziricote if that's what you want. However, I don't think you should choose a guitar just because it has ziricote back and sides, because the soundboard/strutting, and how the luthier treats them, is far more significant in determining the sound of the guitar.

James
+1

If one has to quantify "such amount of money to upgrade", a quick check at Luthier Mercantile LMII provides (a sample of) that delta, average IRW $140 USD for B&S vs Ziricote $340 USD, or about $200 USD more.

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by GuitarsWeB » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:17 pm

I personally think Cocobolo is equal to any woods for sides and back.

Nikos_Greek
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by Nikos_Greek » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:12 pm

In my humble opinion, ziricote may look beautiful, but since it is so prone to cracking, I would never prefer it over IR, which is a first rate tonewood itself. Of course, as James mentioned, the wood itself plays little role in how a guitar sounds. As an alternative to IR I would rather go for a cocobolo B&S guitar.

UKsteve
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by UKsteve » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 pm

I have a Kris Barnett in ziricote; it's fabulous.
Read about it here:

viewtopic.php?t=101921

Don't sweat the small stuff. B+S wood is part of the equation but the luthier is king.
I'd much rather have a plain old boring IRW guitar from a luthier who knows what they are doing than any BRW + moon spruce etc. etc. from someone who doesn't.

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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by GuitarsWeB » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Don't sweat the small stuff. B+S wood is part of the equation but the luthier is king.
I'd much rather have a plain old boring IRW guitar from a luthier who knows what they are doing than any BRW + moon spruce etc. etc. from someone who doesn’t.
DITTO!

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souldier
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by souldier » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:17 pm

Nikos_Greek wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:12 pm
In my humble opinion, ziricote may look beautiful, but since it is so prone to cracking, I would never prefer it over IR, which is a first rate tonewood itself. Of course, as James mentioned, the wood itself plays little role in how a guitar sounds. As an alternative to IR I would rather go for a cocobolo B&S guitar.
Cocobolo can also be prone to cracking.
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Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

Intune
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Re: Ziricote as a tonewood

Post by Intune » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:21 pm

Another plus for ziricote, aside from its good looks and acoustics, is that it's not on any CITES list of endangered woods and can be freely sold and transported. This is no small matter if you plan to travel with your guitar or perhaps sell it overseas one day -- assuming the other woods on the guitar were similarly CITES legal.

I do have one question about ziricote, though, that I'm hoping someone with experience might weigh in on: Would ziricote work well for a bridge, or is it ruled out by its tendency to crack, by its weight, or whatever?
Intune
2010 Andres Marvi (cedar/Madagascar rosewood)

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