Takamine C132S plug

SteveL123
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by SteveL123 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:55 pm

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:39 pm
I decided to do an intonation check to get a ballpark estimate of bridge & saddle position. Using the old bridge and C-clamps I temporarily mounted it and strung up the D and treble E strings. Tuned them up (scary by the way ), slid in the new bridge assy. The result confirmed that the original/twice-the-distance position is the way to go.
I am curious how did the old bridge come off? Do you have a pic pf the bridge held on with C clamps with 2 strings tuned up?

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:55 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:55 pm
Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:39 pm
I decided to do an intonation check to get a ballpark estimate of bridge & saddle position. Using the old bridge and C-clamps I temporarily mounted it and strung up the D and treble E strings. Tuned them up (scary by the way ), slid in the new bridge assy. The result confirmed that the original/twice-the-distance position is the way to go.
I am curious how did the old bridge come off? Do you have a pic pf the bridge held on with C clamps with 2 strings tuned up?
2018-01-06 12.51.42.jpg
2018-01-06 12.50.12.jpg
It was scary. I imagined a rosewood projectile flying in my general direction while tightening the strings. ...
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1989 Takamine C132S
1979 Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:58 pm

I purposefully put the old bridge at the back edge so I could see any movement (and then run)....
1989 Takamine C132S
1979 Yamaha CG-100A

SteveL123
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by SteveL123 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:05 pm

I see, you used the old bridge just as a tail piece to tie the strings to. Did you remove the old bridge or did it come off unintentionally?

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 pm

It was beginning to separate along the back so I went ahead and removed it. It was difficult to remove, I used an iron (heat source) and spatula to work it off.

My real objective is to refinish (french polish ) the soundboard on my takamine. I bought this one as a cheap backup (I knew it needed work, cost me less than $50) while doing that.
1989 Takamine C132S
1979 Yamaha CG-100A

SteveL123
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:43 pm

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:46 pm
It was beginning to separate along the back so I went ahead and removed it. It was difficult to remove, I used an iron (heat source) and spatula to work it off.

My real objective is to refinish (french polish ) the soundboard on my takamine. I bought this one as a cheap backup (I knew it needed work, cost me less than $50) while doing that.
Did you use a clothes iron? How hot did you set it and how long did it take to get the bridge off? Did the bridge get any burn marks?

I am experimenting with a Soapstone bridge "iron" on a test mule bridge viewtopic.php?f=11&t=117242

Not knowing the ideal temperature to set it to plus it was not making very good thermal contact, the first time it took about an hour. I just finished a test with the second iteration of my design and it took about 30 minutes this time. I'll update that thread later. Will be doing more test till have it dialed before taking the bridge off the 2 guitars I have that needs work.

pcstjohn
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by pcstjohn » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:52 pm

On my 1977 Takamine C136S I just finished removing a lifting bridge, removing the factory THICK poly finish & french polished the stripped top. I was successful & believe I improved the sound - it has a greater range of volume - better loud & better quiet. Subjectively speaking - it's alive...ALIVE! Anyway I'm happy with it...This was my second bridge removal & first complete top refinish with french polish. I am a woodworker, boatbuilder & carver with decades of experience just getting into working on guitars so feel free to critique my techniques...

Negatives are - 1 - the poly finish removal risked damage to the guitar structure and no way is the guitar as durable as before. That old finish looked like new & I'm sure it protected the top from temp & humidity changes as well as nicks & bangs & booze. Not a problem for me as it's an indoor guitar & I baby her...

I got the bridge off with a heat gun & lots of cardboard masking to protect the top, using a leatherworkers "round knife". The curved shape was very effective as it both cuts & wedges & the the edges don't dig in. Much better than a spatula/puttyknife.

The poly finish was impervious to old school paint removers & anything else I threw at it. A heat gun softened the finish enough to carve it off with my round knife but it was difficult to keep a uniform depth of cut & it was very slow going. If I continued it was clear I'd nick down to the wood enough times to have to sand the top down at least a little & maybe a lot... At this point I was committed so I grabbed my oscillating orbital sander & went at it. I used 40 grit which seems extreme but it took the finish off quickly & it was easy to get down to a softer whitish filler or sealer layer which kept me from cutting wood. Then I went to 100grit to get through the thin sealer/filler layer & on through the grits to 320. The top had subtle waves & hollow spots - I didn't flatten the top I just took the finish off didn't and change the top thickness.
My fear was the vibrations from the sander would shake the guitar apart in any number of ways - it didn't & no sign of damage after 2 months of daily playing. I don't know if my concern was justified... I wouldn't do it again on a poly finished top unless the guitar had very little value. In my case I might have buggered a perfectly good guitar...

The french polishing was great fun & a revelation - the intimate control of the material & the relatively pleasant materials used made me a convert. I do have lots of experience with sprayers & toxic coatings so this was wonderful change.Moe
K.Yari CY117 1984
Yamaha G245S 1970's
Takamine C132S 1977
Yari & Son 650 1969
Takamine C128-2 1978
Cordoba Mini R

Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:29 pm

do you think that thinning the top is partly responsible for the improved tone of the guitar?

I wish that my Takemine had a thinner finish for sure, but there's no way I could or would do it myself--and really after what you wrote I doubt that I'll have a luthier do it either.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:46 am

OMG. I'm getting cold feet regarding my proposed Tak refinish. I was assuming that a good paint stripper would remove the finish. I may take a look at alkali-fortified strippers (I read they're more effective on lacquer, polyester coatings). However, I'm starting to feel I may be biting off more than I can chew.
1989 Takamine C132S
1979 Yamaha CG-100A

Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:07 am

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:46 am
OMG. I'm getting cold feet regarding my proposed Tak refinish. I was assuming that a good paint stripper would remove the finish. I may take a look at alkali-fortified strippers (I read they're more effective on lacquer, polyester coatings). However, I'm starting to feel I may be biting off more than I can chew.
I have no luthier skills whatsoever, or woodworking skills or any such thing. I can't strip cellophane off a pack of cigarettes! (now that's an ancient metaphor!) Don't listen to me, I have no experience with this. But pcstjohns account does suggest that this is a hefty project.

The finish on my Takemine has kept this pretty old instrument looking near pristine and glossy for decades. If you could simply wipe it off and apply French polish I'd have it done by a local luthier. But it looks more difficult than that.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

SteveL123
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:57 am

In another thread, it was suggested by a Luthier to use a scraper to strip the old finish off.

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:06 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:07 am
Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:46 am
OMG. I'm getting cold feet regarding my proposed Tak refinish. I was assuming that a good paint stripper would remove the finish. I may take a look at alkali-fortified strippers (I read they're more effective on lacquer, polyester coatings). However, I'm starting to feel I may be biting off more than I can chew.
I have no luthier skills whatsoever, or woodworking skills or any such thing. I can't strip cellophane off a pack of cigarettes! (now that's an ancient metaphor!) Don't listen to me, I have no experience with this. But pcstjohns account does suggest that this is a hefty project.

The finish on my Takemine has kept this pretty old instrument looking near pristine and glossy for decades. If you could simply wipe it off and apply French polish I'd have it done by a local luthier. But it looks more difficult than that.
No worries. I take in all the info I can when thinking about trying something new. I think I'll first see what types of stripper are available where I live. If I can get an alkali-fortified, methylene chloride stripper, I'll try it on my old bridge (it has a very thick coat of polyester) and see what I'm getting myself into. If that doesn't work, I'll forget this and leave well enough alone.

The scraper idea mentioned above is a great idea, I even considered simply hand sanding it off. Scrapers are far more efficient way to go, provided I can properly sharpen them (I've had hit and miss results in the past). However, but I may decide to forget it. I really don't have a problem with the guitar as it stands.
1989 Takamine C132S
1979 Yamaha CG-100A

pcstjohn
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Takamine C132S plug

Post by pcstjohn » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:56 pm

I tried scrapers - the excellent Al Carruth Ultimate Scraper worked best except for the downward pressure required to cut into the poly finish and the brittle quality of the poly which tended to pull up wood fibers if you weren't careful - It worked for the edges along the fretboard. It came down to what was worst for the guitar - the sander vibrations or the downward pressure of the scraper, I chose the sander...(it was faster too...).
I've read conflicting reports about the soundboard finishes used over the years by Takamine so yours might be different but he poly finish on mine was the hardest clear finish I've ever encountered - it was just like trying to scrape a fiberglass boat's gelcoat (both are polyester). It was an excellent learning opportunity for me that has worked out well so far but the job was very risky.

"The finish on my Takemine has kept this pretty old instrument looking near pristine and glossy for decades." The poly certainly does the job it was intended to do! Moe
K.Yari CY117 1984
Yamaha G245S 1970's
Takamine C132S 1977
Yari & Son 650 1969
Takamine C128-2 1978
Cordoba Mini R

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