Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm

gleb wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:13 am
...
I discovered that my 20a has a pine top (no spruce)
Why do you say so? :o
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Beowulf
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Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Beowulf » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm
gleb wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:13 am
...
I discovered that my 20a has a pine top (no spruce)
Why do you say so? :o
Yamaha catalogs have even referred to spruce tops as "German pine". The Ezo spruce found in Japan has also been described as Ezo pine.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

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bacsidoan
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by bacsidoan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:23 pm

HNLim wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:51 pm
Screenshot_20190404-223654_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20190404-223636_Gallery.jpg

This is the original tuning machine for the 1974 to 1978 Yamaha GC30A and the Yamaha GC20M which uses the same 39mm spacing rollers. I have yet to acquire a pre-1978 Yamaha GC30A. However I managed to buy the treble side of the original tuning machine from Japan.

So, my next best option is to reproduce this tuning machine and wait for a pre-1978 Yamaha GC30A to appear in the resale market. I got Rodgers to make a reproduction for me using the best materials that he can get for me. This is definitely the most expensive tuning machine I have own.

20190404_223532.jpg
Screenshot_20190404-223448_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20190404-223416_Chrome.jpg
Excellent choice Mr. Lim. Your guitar is worth it.

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:15 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm
gleb wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:13 am
...
I discovered that my 20a has a pine top (no spruce)
Why do you say so? :o
Yamaha catalogs have even referred to spruce tops as "German pine". The Ezo spruce found in Japan has also been described as Ezo pine.
Well, this article compares pine and spruce. Both are used in musical instruments but spruce seems to be more "resistant" than pine, this later being reserved for cheaper instruments. But is it possible that Yamaha would select an inferior wood to manufacture its Concert series? May be the German pine or the Ezo pine are not that bad after all...
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Beowulf » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:32 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:58 pm
Beowulf wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:15 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm


Why do you say so? :o
Yamaha catalogs have even referred to spruce tops as "German pine". The Ezo spruce found in Japan has also been described as Ezo pine.
Well, this article compares pine and spruce. Both are used in musical instruments but spruce seems to be more "resistant" than pine, this later being reserved for cheaper instruments. But is it possible that Yamaha would select an inferior wood to manufacture its Concert series? May be the German pine or the Ezo pine are not that bad after all...
My point was that the older Japanese luthiers sometimes called spruce, pine. For example, Ezo spruce is a rare conifer from the island of Hokkaido, the northernmost Japanese island...it was sometimes referred to as Ezo pine.
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

gleb
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Location: Milan

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by gleb » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:52 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm
gleb wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:13 am
...
I discovered that my 20a has a pine top (no spruce)
Why do you say so? :o
My luthier, after removing the paint, is aware of the smell that is the pine. In fact, it seemed to me that the sound of the guitar does not correspond to the sound of cedar or spruce but it is something of a hybrid (I would say 2 in 1) and I really like that sound! I can't wait to hear how it will sound with shellac ..
Indeed, the Yamaha archive says that the top of this model can be made from pine.
Last edited by gleb on Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yamaha GC20A (1980)
Yamaha G-245S (1981)
Yamaha G-250S (1980)
Yamaha G-255S (1980)
Aria A-558 (1978)
Aria A-50C
Mozzani-C (1968)
Kiso Suzuki-290
M.Suzuki-202
Yamaha FGX800C
Alhambra (Lucio Carbone mod)
Höfner HF14
Masaru Matano F400 1973

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Beowulf
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Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Beowulf » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:40 pm

gleb wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:52 am
My luthier, after removing the paint, is aware of the smell that is the pine. In fact, it seemed to me that the sound of the guitar does not correspond to the sound of cedar or spruce but it is something of a hybrid (I would say 2 in 1) and I really like that sound! I can't wait to hear how it will sound with shellac ..
Indeed, the Yamaha archive says that the top of this model can be made from pine.
Great...when it's finished, can you post a link to a sound clip so we can hear the sound character?
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

gleb
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by gleb » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:59 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:40 pm
Great...when it's finished, can you post a link to a sound clip so we can hear the sound character?
Ok. I play without nails and I don't even have a decent microphone at home, but I'll get a few songs recorded by someone who plays with nails ...
Yamaha GC20A (1980)
Yamaha G-245S (1981)
Yamaha G-250S (1980)
Yamaha G-255S (1980)
Aria A-558 (1978)
Aria A-50C
Mozzani-C (1968)
Kiso Suzuki-290
M.Suzuki-202
Yamaha FGX800C
Alhambra (Lucio Carbone mod)
Höfner HF14
Masaru Matano F400 1973

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HNLim
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Location: Singapore - The City in a Garden

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by HNLim » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:32 pm

I almost wanted to buy a GC20M but since I only have space in my guitar cupboard for one more and I have a new Rodgers/Yamaha tuning machine waiting, I guessed I better wait for that elusive pre-1978 Yamaha GC30A.
1980 Yamaha GC30A - BRW/Spruce
1984 Yamaha GC70 - BRW/Spruce
2015 Sen #5 - BRW/Spruce
2017 LHN - BRW/Spruce

gleb
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Location: Milan

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by gleb » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:09 pm

https://postimg.cc/2bBJTLGh
80% of the way done..
Yamaha GC20A (1980)
Yamaha G-245S (1981)
Yamaha G-250S (1980)
Yamaha G-255S (1980)
Aria A-558 (1978)
Aria A-50C
Mozzani-C (1968)
Kiso Suzuki-290
M.Suzuki-202
Yamaha FGX800C
Alhambra (Lucio Carbone mod)
Höfner HF14
Masaru Matano F400 1973

Mangore
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Location: South Florida

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Mangore » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:45 am

Hello , everyone I have a doubt how do you voice a used guitar top? the video is awesome by the way.
1982 Yamaha GC30A
1981 Yamaha G250S

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HNLim
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Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by HNLim » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:11 am

Mangore wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:45 am
Hello , everyone I have a doubt how do you voice a used guitar top? the video is awesome by the way.
What video are you referring to?

Basically voicing a completed guitar involves sanding down to reduce the thickness of the top. It is too complicated to describe here. If done properly, you will have a louder, better sounding and a longer sustaining guitar. So far I have done it to to a GC30, GC30A, two GC70 and all have very significant improvement. I am still toying with the idea of doing it to my 1980 GC30A but hesitated because it is just like a new guitar.
1980 Yamaha GC30A - BRW/Spruce
1984 Yamaha GC70 - BRW/Spruce
2015 Sen #5 - BRW/Spruce
2017 LHN - BRW/Spruce

Mangore
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Location: South Florida

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Mangore » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:58 am

The video about voicing the guitar in a previous post, where the luthier describes his voicing technique on a guitar top he's building. Doing that on an already complete built instrument might be difficult too I guess, but for making the guitar sound louder or improve the tone it's definitely worth it.
1982 Yamaha GC30A
1981 Yamaha G250S

gleb
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Location: Milan

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by gleb » Sat May 18, 2019 2:47 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:40 pm
gleb wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:52 am
My luthier, after removing the paint, is aware of the smell that is the pine. In fact, it seemed to me that the sound of the guitar does not correspond to the sound of cedar or spruce but it is something of a hybrid (I would say 2 in 1) and I really like that sound! I can't wait to hear how it will sound with shellac ..
Indeed, the Yamaha archive says that the top of this model can be made from pine.
Great...when it's finished, can you post a link to a sound clip so we can hear the sound character?
Finished with shellac :chaud:
Image
Image
Not bad, the sound certainly didn't get worse. I recorded some examples with the phone (motorola G5S-plus, Augustine 650437 high tension). I play without nails, so excuse me for the quality (it's the first recording in my life :roll: )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18HO3WA ... sp=sharing
Last edited by gleb on Sat May 18, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yamaha GC20A (1980)
Yamaha G-245S (1981)
Yamaha G-250S (1980)
Yamaha G-255S (1980)
Aria A-558 (1978)
Aria A-50C
Mozzani-C (1968)
Kiso Suzuki-290
M.Suzuki-202
Yamaha FGX800C
Alhambra (Lucio Carbone mod)
Höfner HF14
Masaru Matano F400 1973

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Beowulf
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:02 pm
Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: Yamaha GC (Grand Concert) Fan Club -Delcamp

Post by Beowulf » Sat May 18, 2019 4:44 pm

Nice shellac finish work and lyrical playing. It has a lovely sweet timbre. :bravo:
1971 Yamaha GC-10 (Hideyuki Ezaki)
2017 Yamaha GC82S (Akio Naniki/Naohiro Kawashima)

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