Torres FE17 plans?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Robert England
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Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Robert England » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:52 pm

I am interested in building a Torres FE17 style guitar, but I am having difficulty finding any plans or consistent specifications for the original guitar. Searching the Internet yields quite a few makers who have made guitars inspired by this historic guitar, but the various interpretations seem to differ quite a bit in measurements and details. I have ordered a copy of the Romanillos book about Torres, but it is taking a long time to arrive! And I don't know how much information about FE17 will be given in that book. Can anyone direct me to an accurate set of plans for the guitar? Or, would someone what has had the opportunity to study the original be willing to share information about the guitar with me? Thanks.
Robert

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Michael.N.
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:00 pm

If you have a decent large sized picture of the instrument you can draw out a template from it. The picture needs to be face on. You can cross reference from the measurements given in the Romanillos book. The rest can be worked out following the general principles that Torres followed.
Don't forget that the original will never have been made that accurately, so the back will differ from the top and each half will differ from each other. In other words you could literally draw 4 different templates. There's also the factor of time and the effects it's had on the plantilla.
The violin makers approach this kind of thing either by recreating all the asymmetry (pretty much an exact copy) or they take one half of the top (or back) and make an idealised instrument. Pretty much everyone does the latter when it comes to guitars. All the other information required is in the Romanillos book. Only the aesthetic details might prove illusive but again if you have decent photos you can take a lot from them.
Historicalguitars.

Philosopherguy
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Philosopherguy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:34 pm

This link provides some dimensions of all of the Torres guitars, but here is the link for FE-17: http://www.antoniodetorres.es/index.php ... 6&Itemid=2

The site is in Spanish, but it has a lot of resources there.

Martin
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Echi
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Echi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:46 pm

I must have the plan of the top somewhere. It was made by Luca Waldner (who restored the guitar some years ago) and offered for free the download of an A3 page plan. Now his website is different and the plan is not anymore available. There is no mention of the top thickness though.
In case I found it I'll post it.

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Doug Ingram
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Doug Ingram » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:21 am

Robert, I have a PDF drawing of the plantilla and bracing drawn by Luca Waldner when he restored the original. He made it available whne he had his forum up and running. I'll emal it to you tomorrow if you can PM me your address. I've shared it with whomever has asked, all I ask is that credit be given back to Luca.

Using dimensions available, you can scale it. I have a few more dimensions that have been supplied to me, I'll pass those along, too.

I can post what I have here, as well, but its on another computer. I'll do it tomorrow, I need to figure out why I can't upload a PDF...

Luis Fernandez de Cordoba

Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Luis Fernandez de Cordoba » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:38 am

http://www.jitamen.com/wp-content/uploa ... FE17-1.pdf
this is another pdf plan available for download. just the top and bracing pattern. I took it to Fedex Office and printed it full size.

Robert England
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Robert England » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:43 am

I finally received my long awaited (used first edition) copy of the Romanillos book about Torres. I noticed an important discrepancy between the first edition (1987) and the third edition (1995) (which I have limited access to) regarding the waist dimension of the FE17 guitar. The first edition has it at 227mm and the third edition has it at 207mm. Also, the soundboard drawing made by Luca Waldner from the original guitar and generously shared with me by Doug Ingram has the waist measurement at 207ish. I assume that the first edition is a typo. Anyone building a copy from the first edition of Romanillos' book should take note.

The Romanillos book has information about FE17 scattered around throughout the book. It takes a lot of reading to assemble all the data. I plan to use the chapter about Torres in Roy Courtnall's book Making Master Guitars as an additional reference in planning my version of FE17. Courtnall's book documents fairly well a guitar, not FE17, built by Torres the same year (1864) as FE17 and should indicate much of Torres' thinking and methods from the time he made FE17.

Robert

Robert England
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Robert England » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:49 am

Luis,
Thanks for the link. I found this also a while ago, and did exactly the same thing. Except I used Staples Office Depot instead of FedEx for the printing. I've also made a Plexiglas template for tracing the top and back outlines. This Japanese site appears to have copied the drawing by Luca Wagner, as they are identical.
Cheers,
Robert

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Doug Ingram
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Doug Ingram » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:04 am

The guitar in Courtnall is much bigger than the FE17 and my gut feeling is that it represents more of an SE guitar than an FE guitar. It is also much more of a generic Torres guitar.

For guidance I would recommend that you look closely at Romanillos's info on FE19 that is in the book. It is emphasised in the book that Torres' approach and methods did not vary a lot from guitar to guitar, especially in closely related guitars. FE17 and FE19 would be strongly related.

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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by vesa » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:02 am

Courtnall Torres 2 is exactly SE 117, both have 425 BL, 220 UB, 178 W and 283 LB.
I´ve been thinking if the 1864 for Courtnall Torres 1 is a misprint and it should be 1884 instead of?
Of FE guitars in Romanillos book(1995) only FE 15, 23, 24, 27A and 27B come quite close to Cournall Torres 1 measurements, but none of them is build 1864 and none of those come as close as several SE guitars do inclusive some 1884´s.
But none of SE guitars in Romanillos catalogue has exact values 483 BL, 272 UB, 235 W and 360 LB either.
Mayby he had one that is not in Romanillos book in his hands?
Vesa Kuokkanen

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Philipp Lerche
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by Philipp Lerche » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:24 pm

Wow ! Great thread !
Thx for sharing these inspirational infos. For me its just in time because my next project shall be a guitar like Torres' FE17 or 1864 model....
Especially because I love Tarrega and he played one of these.
Thanks so much ! :)
"If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done."
Bruce Lee

Best regards
Phil

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geoff-bristol
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Re: Torres FE17 plans?

Post by geoff-bristol » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:22 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:34 pm
This link provides some dimensions of all of the Torres guitars, but here is the link for FE-17: http://www.antoniodetorres.es/index.php ... 6&Itemid=2

The site is in Spanish, but it has a lot of resources there.

Martin
Thanks for the link. Is there an index or search on this site ?
A lot of stuff on there - and its a lot of clicking to get from fe17 to se114 !

I am currently working on several se114 - and my dims match those - 272-233-357 --480 - 83 hole - 87 -93 depth.

My first two guitars were based on the online free drawings of La Suprema FE19 - those drawings were 273-228-358 --474
however the actual instrument seems to be 264 - 220 - 350 -- 477 ? The soundhole at 85 and depth at 90 - 95 match.
Basically narower and longer ?

Those first two guitars work well though.

edit - oops replying to an old thread I was reading ! - you get like that approaching 70

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