We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:30 pm

On a side note: Today I took my Ryoji Matsuoka No.20 to my local repair man, to adjust nut a little. He had a Kohno No.20 from 1976 hanging on the wall, pretty beaten up, but still. We played them both and the Matsuoka won hands down, much better clarity overall and easier playability. With that said, the strings wasn't new on the Kohno, but it was really night and day. Impressive!

/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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James A. Showalter
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:09 pm

I have to say, for as beaten up and ragged looking as this '72 Ryoji NO 20 is, the sound of it is as nice to the ear as my Pro-J. Different, not as loud but the lower frequencies sustain. With the low-end hanging like that - would you say it has belly? Could it be the old wood? The designs and bracings are in no way similar.

Also-
I was reading somewhere on this site about Ryoji Matsuoka guitars and the nomenclature that describes the 2 different guitars he made. Apparently, and I can't immediately locate the thread where it was discussed, Ryoji labeled guitars made using his design as "M" guitars. He also produced guitars labeled "NO". When I first saw the "NO" marking on my '72 I assumed it meant Number 18. In fact this "NO" marking means that Ryoji made the guitar using to some extent the Kohno design. That is why they often have ebony center stiffening on the necks.

James

I found it-
Jae Lee, 21 November 2016, "What about this old Ryoji Matsuoka?" I believe the thread was started by you Jon, about your purchase of the '72 NO 20.
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

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rinneby
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Location: Sweden

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:27 am

James A. Showalter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:09 pm
I have to say, for as beaten up and ragged looking as this '72 Ryoji NO 20 is, the sound of it is as nice to the ear as my Pro-J. Different, not as loud but the lower frequencies sustain. With the low-end hanging like that - would you say it has belly? Could it be the old wood? The designs and bracings are in no way similar.

Also-
I was reading somewhere on this site about Ryoji Matsuoka guitars and the nomenclature that describes the 2 different guitars he made. Apparently, and I can't immediately locate the thread where it was discussed, Ryoji labeled guitars made using his design as "M" guitars. He also produced guitars labeled "NO". When I first saw the "NO" marking on my '72 I assumed it meant Number 18. In fact this "NO" marking means that Ryoji made the guitar using to some extent the Kohno design. That is why they often have ebony center stiffening on the necks.

James

I found it-
Jae Lee, 21 November 2016, "What about this old Ryoji Matsuoka?" I believe the thread was started by you Jon, about your purchase of the '72 NO 20.
Indeed, the "No. guitars" was a homage to Kohno and the bracing was kind of a mixture between Kohno's design and more traditional ones. This gave the No. guitars great sustain in combination with the somewhat sweeter sound of Spanish guitars. These early Ryoji Matsuoka's are a real treasure for sure.

/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:06 am

Here's a short sound clip of the Ryoji Matsuoka No.20, recorded this morning. No equalization, just a tiny bit of reverb, La Bella 2001 Medium tension strings:

http://jon.rinneby.se/gitarr/gitarr_matsuoka.mp3

All the best from Sweden

/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

rpavich
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: West Virginia, USA

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rpavich » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:44 am

rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:06 am
Here's a short sound clip of the Ryoji Matsuoka No.20, recorded this morning. No equalization, just a tiny bit of reverb, La Bella 2001 Medium tension strings:

http://jon.rinneby.se/gitarr/gitarr_matsuoka.mp3

All the best from Sweden

/Jon
What is the name of the piece you started playing?
Asturias AST-100-heavily modified by Robert England.

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:48 am

rpavich wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:44 am
rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:06 am
Here's a short sound clip of the Ryoji Matsuoka No.20, recorded this morning. No equalization, just a tiny bit of reverb, La Bella 2001 Medium tension strings:

http://jon.rinneby.se/gitarr/gitarr_matsuoka.mp3

All the best from Sweden

/Jon
What is the name of the piece you started playing?
Maximo Diego Pujol - Verde Alma

/J
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

rpavich
Posts: 687
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: West Virginia, USA

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rpavich » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:50 am

rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:48 am
rpavich wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:44 am
rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:06 am
Here's a short sound clip of the Ryoji Matsuoka No.20, recorded this morning. No equalization, just a tiny bit of reverb, La Bella 2001 Medium tension strings:

http://jon.rinneby.se/gitarr/gitarr_matsuoka.mp3

All the best from Sweden

/Jon
What is the name of the piece you started playing?
Maximo Diego Pujol - Verde Alma

/J
Thank you. That guitar sounds lovely.
Asturias AST-100-heavily modified by Robert England.

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James A. Showalter
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:00 pm

Well, I hope Victoria can find a nice early Ryoji Matsuoka. I couldn't recommend a finer instrument to someone who was looking for a Japanese guitar from that era.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:15 pm

James A. Showalter wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:00 pm
Well, I hope Victoria can find a nice early Ryoji Matsuoka. I couldn't recommend a finer instrument to someone who was looking for a Japanese guitar from that era.
James
There is a No.25 from 1975 on auction right now here. It seems to be in a good condition... :). The auction ends in two days and, presently, the last offer is € 53,20 which is ridiculously low :lol:. And I do agree with you, my No.40 cost me much, but VERY MUCH, less than my Hermanos Camps Master but, sound wise, it is as good, if not better :D. It is a must for all of us, enthusiasts of Japanese vintage guitars... Victoria would be well served, I'm convinced.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

es335
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by es335 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:49 pm

Looks like it's time to disclose my latest purchase which had been disregarded a little bit for different reasons.

It's a Matsuoka No. 41/350, a model number system which obviously had been used mainly in Germany!? According internet researches it might be a model M50 but I'm not really sure about it. The printed number on the heel inside is 830609 and supposedly the manufacturing date. The said selling price in '83 was around 1100 DM, so actually no entry level guitar.

The guitar features a solid cedar top, a supposedly laminated but nicely figured rosewood body, single stripe reinforced neck with Ramirez head, a dark rosewood fingerboard which is tapered above fret 12 on bass AND treble side and Ramirez bracing as far as my fingers could feel without removing strings. Unfortunately an old hairline crack behind the bridge too which had not been reproted. But it seems to be stable even during the dry weather conditions we passed just recently and the buy was quite cheap, why it was still a reasonable buy!

Sound is nice and warm but frankly speaking I have not taken care about her too much for very different reasons, particularly as I wanted to observe the development of the crack first!

Here are some pictures for FYI! :wink: :D
P1040177.jpg
P1040179.jpg
P1040180.jpg
P1040181.jpg
P1040182.jpg
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:57 pm

es335 wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:49 pm
Looks like it's time to disclose my latest purchase which had been disregarded a little bit for different reasons.

It's a Matsuoka No. 41/350, a model number system which obviously had been used mainly in Germany!? According internet researches it might be a model M50 but I'm not really sure about it. The printed number on the heel inside is 830609 and supposedly the manufacturing date. The said selling price in '83 was around 1100 DM, so actually no entry level guitar.

The guitar features a solid cedar top, a supposedly laminated but nicely figured rosewood body, single stripe reinforced neck with Ramirez head, a dark rosewood fingerboard which is tapered above fret 12 on bass AND treble side and Ramirez bracing as far as my fingers could feel without removing strings. Unfortunately an old hairline crack behind the bridge too which had not been reproted. But it seems to be stable even during the dry weather conditions we passed just recently and the buy was quite cheap, why it was still a reasonable buy!

Sound is nice and warm but frankly speaking I have not taken care about her too much for very different reasons, particularly as I wanted to observe the development of the crack first!

Here are some pictures for FYI! :wink: :D
P1040177.jpg
P1040179.jpg
P1040180.jpg
P1040181.jpg
P1040182.jpg
I see Ryoji Matsuoka is taking over this thread! Regarding the sound of your "new" guitar, my No.20 was a sleeper and woke up after some playing time, so don't give up :)

/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

es335
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Germany

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by es335 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:59 pm

rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:57 pm
...I see Ryoji Matsuoka is taking over this thread! Regarding the sound of your "new" guitar, my No.20 was a "sleeper" and woke up after some playing time, so don't give up :)

/Jon
Thanks for noting Jon but she’s quite awake and loud already! :D

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:02 pm

es335 wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:59 pm
rinneby wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:57 pm
...I see Ryoji Matsuoka is taking over this thread! Regarding the sound of your "new" guitar, my No.20 was a "sleeper" and woke up after some playing time, so don't give up :)

/Jon
Thanks for noting Jon but she’s quite awake and loud already! :D
OK :)
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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James A. Showalter
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Location: Mississippi

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:14 pm

es335 said:

"I wanted to observe the development of the crack first!"

If the crack was not stable, or its presence just intolerable, how would you go about repairing it? Inject glue, let it harden then refinish?

James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

es335
Posts: 1499
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Location: Germany

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by es335 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:35 pm

Sorry for the confusing formulation. First I was irritated when she arrived but know now that this hairline crack is old and stable! Just didn’t make up my mind, how to deal with. Leave it or have it repaired? We’ll see. She sounds really nice anyway, irrespective of this! :wink:

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