Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
SteveL123
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Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by SteveL123 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:14 pm

Maybe this Luthier had too much Sangria, but all frets from 12th and higher are around 12 cents sharp. Spacing between frets should get successively smaller as the note goes higher. You can clearly see the spacing between 11-12 is bigger than 12-13.

How would you fix this?

I was thinking of pulling frets 12 to 18, mix up some epoxy with ebony dust and fill in the slots. Cut new slots and re-fret. Will that work? It does not have to look perfect. I just want it to play in tune.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by Michael.N. » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:38 pm

I can think of a few ways of doing it. I'd probably pull the frets and fill with ebony strips. Your epoxy and dust will probably work. You can try it on a piece of scrap wood.
Historicalguitars.

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Jose Marques
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by Jose Marques » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:11 pm

Like Michael says ebony strip
About the wpoxy with dust i dont believe it works, wen you cut the new slot if is near the saw will pull the epoxy .
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

simonm
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by simonm » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:43 pm

Have you measured the fret distances? How far off the expected distance dare they? Are you sure you can cut more accurately?

Bill
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by Bill » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:48 pm

You could remove and replace the fretboard with a pre slotted one from LMI, install the frets of your choice, and you are good to go
Last edited by Bill on Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

SteveL123
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:59 am

simonm wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:43 pm
Have you measured the fret distances? How far off the expected distance dare they? Are you sure you can cut more accurately?
No I have not. Will this calculator do? https://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator
Last edited by SteveL123 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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petermc61
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by petermc61 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:13 am

Frankly I would run a mile and not bother, at least unless you do lots more measurements. Anybody who places frets that badly either doesn’t know what they are doing or is incredibly sloppy. It would be horrible to do all that fretbwork and then find out, for example, that there is no saddle compensation and it still won’t play in tune. Make sure everything else looks sensible before you start changing frets.

vesa
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by vesa » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:33 am

Hi Steve
Stewmac calculator is fine if you know the scale length, but do you know it??
12. fret in wrong position won't give the ¨half way¨ of it, 325 mm if 650.
And the free length: 651-652 if 650??
What is the compensation?? And is the compensation accurate or a mistake again??
I would check it by putting a long ruler on the fretboard and see if other fret placings fit to the scale length assumed before marking the 12th.
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OldPotter
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by OldPotter » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:56 am

I'm not sure about this but I don't understand your approach. It looks to me as if all the fret spacings diminish as you go up the fingerboard. If they are all out of tune from 12 to 18 perhaps the action/compensation is incorrect and some work there could reduce the error to 5 cents or less. If the notes below the 12th fret are also a little bit sharp then that also would make me think that the compensation needed work. Perhaps a different brand of strings would also have an effect.

Being only an ordinary player myself, I don't normally play above the 12th fret and so would try not to worry about it.

A 12 cents error at the 12- 13 fret equates to an error of more than 2mm using the Frank Ford method. I'm not sure I see that on your guitar.

For the complete guide on saddle and nut compensation you might need the get Trevor Gore's book.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

SteveL123
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:51 pm

I need to buy a yardstick and measure the scale length and nut to frets distances, as well as fret to fret, saddle to frets distances to see the whole picture. I did have an aluminum yardstick but it was cut up into smaller pieces to make other tools.

I play La Catedral which use frets above 12. In the Allegro Solemne, near the end, the 19th fret (B5) is needed.

amezcua
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by amezcua » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:40 pm

CTI glue for metal to wood . Flexible enough to cope with humidity changes . Only straight frets ? No problem. Use straight wire . You just need a decent tuner . CTI is a recent innovation for glue addicts . I have a cheap guitar where the fret slots were burned into the wood . Probably automatic machinery used . A saw would run straight across but these slots stopped short with a pointy shape and the edge was not cut , apart from the very tip of the point . The edges of the slots were darkened by the heat .

OldPotter
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by OldPotter » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:11 pm

This was posted a few years ago, I had forgotten it completely....viewtopic.php?t=28880

Lots of very good information on fret placing accuracy.

Respect for tackling "La Catedral", I understand the need for accuracy.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

Kevin Cowen
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by Kevin Cowen » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:32 pm

That's the weirdest guitar I've ever seen in my life.
It seems to have 37 frets.
I presume this thread is a joke?

Alan Carruth
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by Alan Carruth » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:06 pm

I've seen that sort of thing in the past, but not that bad. The guy bumped the ruler as he was laying out the slots, and didn't check before cutting them.

At one point I had printouts of all the fret scales from about 630-665mm in mm intervals. I could lay the ruler down and find out which scale had the most frets that matched, and then correct the rest. Some of them seemed to be laid out 'by eye' rather than measurments. You don't see that much these days.

At any rate, I'd consider doing something like that: measure the nut to saddle distance, assume a normal saddle compensation and subtract that, and get the printout for the scale based on the remaining distance. Get a really good ruler, lay it down on the fretboard, and see how close things come to that. If it's much different maybe it's not worh the effort.

I'm still trying to figure out where Kevin got 37 frets.... I see 18 full and one partial.

OldPotter
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Re: Remedy for frets 12 to 19 in wrong place

Post by OldPotter » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:07 pm

The edges of the slots were darkened by the heat .
Possibly laser cut? Like many model kits?
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

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