Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
CrisJoaquim
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Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by CrisJoaquim » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:37 pm

I'm dabbling in flamenco a bit and having fun doing it. I Own a gk studio negra as well as a Yamah cg171sf and I'm possibly going to end up selling one. I'm enjoying the yamaha a bit more because the action is much much better. It still has a bit to go on the saddle if I wanted to lower it more but I think it's pretty much perfect for me the way it is.

I like the gk too, although in terms of tone they sound pretty similar to me, the only problem I have with the gk is that the action is too high, for flamenco standards at least. When I got it initially, which was used for a good price, I took it to my luthier and asked to have the action lowered on the nut and saddle. He told me he can do it for cheap but that there wasn't too much saddle left to go. He lowered it as much as he could pretty much and looking at it, there's definitely not much more of the saddle to go down. I haven't measured the action on the 12th, however it seems noticeably higher than my Yamaha, more of how I would have my classicals set up. I don't know IF i need two guitars for flamenco given that I mainly just play it for fun, but is there any way to have the action on the 12th lowered any more? It does have a truss rod, and measuring it on the 7th it doesn't have more relief than the Yamaha, but I don't know if that would do anything with the action at the 12th. Also, the intonation on the GK is spot on so I don't know if messing with the truss would mess up intonation for me.

On a side note, I had another question if anybody has played both guitars. Looking at it from retail, the yamaha was 350 or so new, the gk is 650 I believe? The Gk looks real nice, and that's one thing I like about it, but does much justifity the price over the yamaha? am I paying that much more because of the electronics? I'm probably going to end up keeping the GK, probably not so much for flamenco though. Anybody have a preference between the two?

simonm
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by simonm » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:12 pm

If you believe your luthier, then the answer is clear. Get rid of it and get a flamenco guitar. "messing with the truss rod" is not a good idea. :-)

Never heard of GK guitars. The Cordoba brand is quite well know. It is likely that the materials are marginally more expensive and there is a bit more labour to fit the truss rod and the pick-up. That, plus marketing, accounts for the price difference.

You mention you are studying guitar performance - ask around where ever you are studying and see if someone has a flamenco guitar they want to sell.

John higgon
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by John higgon » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:39 pm

The nuclear option is to plane down the part of the bridge which acts as the walls to the saddle slot. That exposes more of the saddle and in that way you can reduce the action a bit further. But (a) it's not something to try yourself, and (b) it is likely to have some effect on the tone. There is a limit to how much you can reduce the saddle slot. There has to be enough slot for the saddle to sit in... Bear in mind that reducing the action at the saddle by x will result in reduced action at the 12th fret of x/2.

Sharkbait
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by Sharkbait » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:22 pm

simonm wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:12 pm
If you believe your luthier, then the answer is clear. Get rid of it and get a flamenco guitar. "messing with the truss rod" is not a good idea. :-)

Never heard of GK guitars. The Cordoba brand is quite well know. It is likely that the materials are marginally more expensive and there is a bit more labour to fit the truss rod and the pick-up. That, plus marketing, accounts for the price difference.

You mention you are studying guitar performance - ask around where ever you are studying and see if someone has a flamenco guitar they want to sell.
The OP mentions he owns a Yamaha cg171sf (beside the Córdoba GK negra, regarding which he’s asking about the action), which I understand is a flamenco guitar. Perhaps, simonm, you missed this when you suggested he gets a (another) flamenco guitar?

Dave Stott
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by Dave Stott » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Fwiw. GK is a model in the Cordoba line of guitars. It stands for Gypsy King.

They offer 2 levels of the GK. The Studio are less expensive with laminated sides and back. The Pro's have solid wood sides and back.

It's a sort of a cross between a flamenco & a classical guitar with a cutaway. They have a 1.96" width nut, but with a thinner depth neck.

You can adjust the action on them really low, but it ends up with a lot of string snap while playing. Which I'm told Flamenco players like. 😀

My GK Pro Negra is set up with 4mm at the bass side and 3mm on the treble side at the 12th fret. I play fingerstyle in a wide variety of genre's of music on it.

Dave
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Keith
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by Keith » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:34 pm

Yamaha flamenco guitars have a good reputation for being a good flamenco guitar for the price. As a flamenco player I would not hesitate in keeping the Yamaha over the GK for many reasons--neck width, playability and quality of sound. I have played several Yamaha flamenco guitars and several Cordoba flamenco guitars and I think the Yamaha is the better choice if you want to play flamenco. That said, some folks like crossover guitars-- narrow necks with electronics. If that is the case then the Cordoba is the one to keep. I
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prawnheed
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by prawnheed » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:49 pm

Keep the Yamaha.

Cordoba are great at marketing. Imagine how many classical guitars they would have sold if they had called them "Miklaucic's Chinese guitars".

MessyTendon
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by MessyTendon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:28 am

Nylon guitars always need higher action than comparable steel string. The floppy nylon material requires a bit more clearance than steel. So if it seems high, it might not be at all.

A lower action on a nylon instrument can kill the response. Unless the action is really high I wouldn't worry about it. Flamenco action is low, but most flamenco players use a a capo or play in the positions not much near the 12th fret.

If you don't have much saddle, that's either because your "luthier" treated action as a steel stringer, or he genuinely needed to shave that much.

Technically a truss rod is not for adjusting action. But I would have set the relief of the truss rod before adjusting anything else. A truss rod creates an upbow or backbow...

It can be quite subjective. A truss rod adjustment can be personal. But a neck doesn't need to be dead flat. Too many idiot "techs" for big box stores insist on no relief and just torque the snot out of the rod until there is no relief, that either means loosening it or tightening it too much.

You can certainly adjust the truss rod without fear...it only takes a light turn...So long as you don't strip the bolt it's no big deal. Just do it lightly.

Dave Stott
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by Dave Stott » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:00 pm

Gotta love comments like the one from Prawnheed. Proudly promoting Far Eastern made Yamaha's in one breath and disparaging Chinese made Cordoba's in the next breath.

From what I've seen in some reported sales numbers, Cordoba is certainly filling a void in customers desires for nylon string guitars that other manufacturers have missed or overlooked. There were certainly some missteps in the early offerings from Cordoba, but they've improved their guitars dramatically in the past few years.

prawnheed wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:49 pm
Keep the Yamaha.

Cordoba are great at marketing. Imagine how many classical guitars they would have sold if they had called them "Miklaucic's Chinese guitars".
2015 Cordoba GK Pro Negra
2017 Cordoba Orchestra 12 Cedar
2003 Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe
2015 Simon & Patrick Showcase CH HG

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prawnheed
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Re: Is there any way to further lower the action on my cordoba gk?

Post by prawnheed » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:08 pm

Dave Stott wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:00 pm
Gotta love comments like the one from Prawnheed. Proudly promoting Far Eastern made Yamaha's in one breath and disparaging Chinese made Cordoba's in the next breath.

From what I've seen in some reported sales numbers, Cordoba is certainly filling a void in customers desires for nylon string guitars that other manufacturers have missed or overlooked. There were certainly some missteps in the early offerings from Cordoba, but they've improved their guitars dramatically in the past few years.

prawnheed wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:49 pm
Keep the Yamaha.

Cordoba are great at marketing. Imagine how many classical guitars they would have sold if they had called them "Miklaucic's Chinese guitars".
Yamaha is quite clearly, to me at least, a far eastern name.

I am not disparaging at all of far eastern guitars - I have several.

I find Cordaba's guitars to be nothing special and somewhat overpriced, but their marketing to be very well executed.

Golfgnome
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Re: Truss Rod Adjustments

Post by Golfgnome » Thu May 10, 2018 2:34 pm

I could use some insight on truss rod adjustments and humidity, etc. I bought a Cordoba C7 cedar a year ago. We had a very dry cold winter here and had the heat cranked up for most of it. About two months ago I noticed buzzing and asked my teacher to take a look. He agreed something was wrong and the tone and buzzing were noticeably different. He thought maybe a high fret. I didn't want to mess with the truss rod adjustment (although I had made an adjustment to a Telecaster a long time ago). I brought it back to the dealer who made a slight adjustment to the truss rod and it was better. We talked about the humidity level and I bought a humidifier that fits in the soundhole. Then I bought a hygrometer to check the humidity. The humidity level was only 30% at home so I started using the humidifier and keeping the guitar in the Gig bag. I was able to get it up to 40-50% and the guitar started to sound like it used to when I bought it. My question is should I bring it back again to have the truss rod readjusted to what it was originally? They said if it was playing well and the tone was good just keep playing it and make sure to keep it humidified next winter. Any thoughts? Thanks.

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