Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Dmitrypey
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Dmitrypey » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:03 pm

I think that with raised fingerboards, and strings being further away from the soundboard, its probably helps prevent nail dings on the top.

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Steve Ganz
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Steve Ganz » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:34 pm

Gregory. With frets, aim for about 3 mm between the fret and string (treble) and 4mm (bass).
During construction, check the geometry before you attach the fingerboard. At that point it is relatively easy to change the slope of the ramp. After the fingerboard is attached you can still change things a bit as in this video (skill and preparation are required)
Steve

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Michael Lazar
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Michael Lazar » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:53 pm

James Lister wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:26 pm
If you want to build to a particular design that works for you (e.g. Hauser), then you might be better to keep the angle between the strings and the soundboard the same. Rather than slope the whole soundboard downwards towards the neck, you just slope the upper bout down by bending the soundboard at the lower harmonic bar. This keeps the geometry of the lower bout the same.

James
This is true, however, there is a point that is being missed in this thread. Thomas Humphrey claimed to have developed the sloped top innovation when he introduced his "Millennium" guitar (I've no idea whether he actually did it first nor do I actually care). The purpose was to change the angle of pull on the top moving toward the architecture of a harp. He claimed that this would produce more volume. The resulting elevation of the fret board is nothing more than a by product of the design rather than being the primary feature.

I started making sloped top guitars after our guitar society had booked the Assad brothers for a concert. Both were playing Humphrey Millenniums and said they quite liked them. As part of my research I built a number of guitars with different bracing designs both ways, ie; with and without sloped tops. I cannot say there was a huge difference but most of the folks who regularly try my guitars seemed to feel the sloped topped models produced a little more output.

I don't slope my tops as much as Humphrey did for the simple reason that I like the aesthetics better when the slope is reduced. Another aspect that I rather like is the opportunity to make a fully domed top along with Spanish heel architecture albeit one can do that with traditional designs by placing an angled shim from neck wood beneath the fret board where it joins to the upper bout to fill the resulting gap.

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:45 pm

We like a full domed top with 30 radius..we find lazar's top very beautiful..also we like a more sloped top and bigger height to 12 fret..from 10 mm we want to do it 15 mm..we prefer to build it on solera..we try to find the right way..differently we will make the body and after we will fit the neck..any advice?also the strings's power will become bigger?we should make a stronger body than yours?

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Ken Whisler
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Ken Whisler » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:23 am

I’ve been slightly elevating my necks for some time now. I vary the amount of elevation. I’ve gone as low as 9mm and as high as 15mm at the 12th fret. I always fit the neck to the body to establish string height at bridge and optimum neck angle, and then with the neck clamped in place, I fit the heel to the neck and body. Of course if you do it this way, you need to adopt a method where you construct the neck and the body separate and then attach the neck to the body.

I’m currently building 3 guitars with tops cut consecutively from the same flitch. 1st one will have 9mm elevation at 650 scale. 2nd will have 9mm elevation at 660 scale. 3rd one will have 12mm elevation at 650 scale. I’ll post the results here and we can all see the effects of scale and elevation on tone.
Ken Whisler, guitarist and luthier

theknowle
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by theknowle » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 pm

Surely if the fingerboard does not touch the table, acoustics must improve. Strutting can be extended north of the soundhole and much more of the top is free to vibrate, like in all bowed instruments.
As it normally is, only the lower section of the top vibrates significantly? As Michael says, however, if it made a huge difference, we would all be doing it. I wonder, though, if tradition and received perceptions of aesthetics hamper our creativity?
Last edited by theknowle on Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael Lazar
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Michael Lazar » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:09 pm

Gregory wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:45 pm
Differently we will make the body and after we will fit the neck..any advice? Also the strings's power will become bigger? We should make a stronger body than yours?
If you go to the "Construction" page on my website you can find an extensive description with over 750 photos covering the construction of my latest guitar. As you can see, I use a wedged Spanish heel architecture with the sloped top which requires some fairly complex router work in the neck. The body construction incorporates continuous laminated linings both top and back which are scarfed over a dropped tail block and interlocked with the heel wedges. This results in an extremely solid but light instrument capable of withstanding any amount string tension as well as a lot of abuse by some of my more high use clients. I've also made a few 7 stringed guitars using the same architecture with no adverse results.

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:48 am

Mr Lazar

I see the construction page..your neck support is flat and and you give the angle to the fingerboard..right?it will works and our plan?

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Michael Lazar
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Michael Lazar » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:01 pm

Yes, I taper my fret board from 7mm at the nut to 5.5 mm at the sound hole in order to achieve a bridge height reduction of about 3mm. You could achieve the same result by angling the neck downward from nut to sound hole. If you are attaching the neck after the body is completed you'll have the opportunity to check your neck angle by dry fitting the neck and measuring. Should you need to make adjustments, you can taper either the neck or the fingerboard. It will be your choice,

As the slope in the sound board is achieved by rotating the top downward using the saddle point as the fulcrum, the height of the bridge remains the same for all degrees of downward slope including no slope at all. Consequently the neck angle should be zero degrees (90 degrees to the front of the body) for all amounts of slope, adjusted to produce your desired bridge height for the action you choose. Changing the slope only affects the angle cut on the underside of the neck from fret 12 to sound hole.

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:56 am

Thank you about your help Mr. Lazar..I will start the building and I will upload photos from my construction!

Paul Micheletti
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Paul Micheletti » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:52 pm

My guitar instructor has two excellent guitars that both have an elevated fingerboard. He has a Humphries guitar that has a flat top that is tilted at the bridge so that there is about 3/4" extra room between the neck end of the body and the fingerboard. And he has a Byers guitar that has a top that is bent at the lower transverse brace so the top dives down from the LTB under the fingerboard by 5/8".

They both sound great, but he prefers playing the Byers because it works better for his right hand playing style. When playing the bass strings with i and m, he rests his thumb on the rosette to allow access to the bass strings with his fingers. With the Byers, the string elevation is the same off the top up to the LTB as in a "normal" guitar, and then it starts to drop off above that point on the top. At the rosette, the strings are a bit further off the top but not too much for him. With the Humphries, the flat top pivot starts back at the bridge so that the strings are pretty far off the top at the rosette. That makes his playing style difficult.

I'm currently figuring out how to build my first elevated fingerboard guitar in the Byers style. I build with separate neck and body that are joined by a glued spline. I'm doing the same thing on this guitar, but with a dummy mock-up neck first to get all the geometry down on the dummy neck before I make a real one.

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:06 am

I find very difficult to make solera like byers 's..how to make the domed upper bout?you should use a cnc router to make this..

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:48 pm

tail-marquetry.jpg
tail-marquetry.jpg
Hello! Happy new year to all the members..!I have a question..can someone say me from what kind of woods are made these bindings?of course I mean the veneer what kind of wood..it has a beautiful orange color..thanks!
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Steve Ganz
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Steve Ganz » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 pm

That would seem to have little to do with this topic.
The orange red is probably mahogany, maybe not.
If you know who built the guitar, you could ask the builder.
Steve

Gregory
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Re: Guitar with elevated fingerboard

Post by Gregory » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:35 pm

I think sapele to the first guitar..the second guitar is a dominelli guitar..I have send enough email to Mr marcus about making a classical guitar and I am shy to ask him again..I think he has used a curly maple to second guitar..

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