ernandez Mk-III

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:57 am

First top is on with the new sound bar layout. Had a small can of red stain so I made use of it, perhaps I'll explain the signifagance some day. Almost had the second top glued up today as well but my back said to me it was time for a rest.

The second foto is my brace/sound bar radios tool. There are a couple screws holding the thin plywood down I the center and then I just slide the shims adordingly to get the proper curve for the top or bottom dome: about 1.5mm for the top and 3mm for the back.

To get the dome I use the cutout from my form and have added legs so the one for the top is about 3mm shirt of the top of my jig. I gust set it inside then lay the slightly oversized plate on top and use a couple paint cans to hold it down while I glue on the sound bars.

I glue the top and bottom braces on the sides before adding the top and bottoms. I just found it made more sense to do it that way. Read somewhere that Torres did it that way. I place the side into the jig but about 5/16 above. Then I sand the sides at a small angle using a long flat strip of plywood. I block up the opsasit side twice the amount of dome and sand away. I'll get a photo next time.

HR
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I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

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Christopher Langley
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by Christopher Langley » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:04 pm

Very cool. Nice radial bracing and treble bar.

Curious about the red color :P
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ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:34 pm

One photo shows simple way to angle rib/lining edge for domed top. I scribble the edge with pencil so I know we're the low spots are whil I am sanding. I put a level across the heal block to make sure it doesn't get wonky. The end without the paper is blocked up about twice the highth of the dome and it just slides around as I sand. I check the level of the whole top with e dep gage which is the bridge blank I use to set the highth in the jig to start with. There are a few dawel pins undernith to,keep it from sliding down while clamping the top on, you know like it tried to do last time.

Glued up third top and decided to go with a black treble bar. Anyone know why?

HR
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I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
Posts: 195
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 pm

Christopher Langley wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:04 pm
Very cool. Nice radial bracing and treble bar.

Curious about the red color :P
Thanx.

The plan is to sand the tone bars of one about half way down and the thre one to one quarter highth and compare their tap tones while glued up without the backs. And depending on what I get I will or will not mode them all although I can't go back with the shorter ones. This is one of the reasons I wanted to make three at once.

The red is a triditional Upik and Aleut, western native Alaskan people's, triditions of using a red part inside their badarka (kayak) for spiritual reasons. The black has always been my thing: my car, my airplane, my clothes... Of course no one will ever see those treble bars.

HR
I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:59 am

So, on the third Mk-III I decided to run two long sound bars all the way forward to just under the forward top brace, both a treble and bass.mthe base I shaved down to half the highth as well as shaving all the sound bars on the bass side of the bridge.

Ok, cause no one noticed I'll point out how I mounted up two of my three tops with the treble bar on the wrong side of the top plate. Yep. Even got one top glued up to the ribs. I've been known to do stuff like this throuout my life it along with my spelling has always been the bain of my exestance. And that is the answer for the black colored treble bar and why I have one with both a long treble and bass sound bar. I know you are thinking, what about the third one? I'm going to build her up as a lefty, someone has to need one sooner or later ;)

Second foto is my simple arrangement for trimming the sides, a router being one of those tools I haven't come to terms with alongside the wood plane. I've got my eye on a cordless battery operated router though for binding. I don't know, I might just do it old school.

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I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:00 am

First foto is the three Ladies laying on their sides without their behinds as it were. I'll leave it at that.

Tapped them a whole bunch and all three have a different tone, doe ray me, we'll certainly not a whole step apart but noticeably different in pitch. Guessing the sound bar changes noted up thread have something to do with it?

Other foto is with my braces wounded to the ribs. I just find it makes more sense to mount them this way. It still a junction I'm trying to perfect. The vary last out of six I was finely able to fit snug, not so much like a kindagarden art project. Of course having to clearance for the sound bars makes it more fun. Thinking I've got one or two too close by the looks of things.mi am going to get a used D string and saw through to make certain there is proper clearance.

Need to make up the sound bars for the bottom plates, get them glued on, fit the bottom braces, then i will be ready to attach the bottoms although I will most likely wait to prefix the necks which I join with three dowels and epoxy together. Nothing fancy but I think stronger then the sourounding wood. I do have a hankering to test one to distruction, slo mo video and all, but so far I haven't made one that sounds that bad ;). Could be any day.

Necks are on the agenda and I'm fighting with the technical nerd in the lab coat on one shoulder telling me, pulltrudded Carbon Rod, whilst the gronala head with beard on my other shoulder is whispering, thought we were going green dude. Most likly a compromise: a strip of birch for stiffness and the rest Aspin cause it's so light. Oak fretboard. And yes, I'm going back to pegs for all three but the nerd in the lab coat has budgeted for Peghead planetary tuners; a win win besides the lightening of the pocket book.

I am still on the fence about finishing. I used some Bullseye clear shallak on the tops and it looked nice but even the clear was a little more yellowing then I wanted. I'm still thinking nitrate aircraft dope which is a cellulose nitrate produce I am vary familure with. For the tops just a few coats to seal and for the sides and back it's going to take as many coats as I can stand. I'll save the FP for some time down the road as I think it will be problematic in every way in our northern clime.

I've been playing the Mk-I & II every day mostly just loving the processe of making sound and relearning where I had forgotten, which of course was mostly everything. I spend about 20-30 minutes doing scales and othe practice exercises with the metronome jammed in my ear. It's amazing how it helps. I've a couple pieces i am working on remembering although I don't recall their names. All my music burned up in a fire years ago so I'm going at them from memory. The most complicated one I can play most terribly by playing really fast with my eyes closed but if I watched my hands or slowed down my mind stopped cooperating. I've got that one almost beat now just need another week to iron out the little details. The other piece is more simple and there are a few bars I just can't pull out of the fog, I've decided to just make it sound good and be at piece with it and who knows, perhaps some one will recognize it and I'll be able to get the music; although I'll have to learn how to play it the right way. One of my greatest playing joys it to just pick a key and play on a Spanish theme. I play something riffing around the fretboard until my fingertips are raw or my thumb cries stop. I use a drop D tuning and just love to crush the wound strings a la Pulgar. It's something vary powerful when you can get the whole guitar resonating while all the notes are clear. I've been without a thumb nail for the last week: the luthiers Curse.

Had another guitar first! Someone else playing the guitars I built, not a classical player. Had some dinner guest, some wine, and while everyone was chattering one of my friends who is a professional musician sat down and gave both a try. The pegs kicks his ass :/ He kept commenting how strong the bass was, wish I could recall his exact comments. To be honest I was only paying attention to the sound. In the end I figured out he was afraid and was being too delicate with them, had I noticed I would have told him to get with it. Next time!

HR

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Stephen Faulk
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by Stephen Faulk » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:08 am

ernandez R wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 pm
Christopher Langley wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:04 pm
Very cool. Nice radial bracing and treble bar.

Curious about the red color :P
Thanx.

The plan is to sand the tone bars of one about half way down and the thre one to one quarter highth and compare their tap tones while glued up without the backs. And depending on what I get I will or will not mode them all although I can't go back with the shorter ones. This is one of the reasons I wanted to make three at once.

The red is a triditional Upik and Aleut, western native Alaskan people's, triditions of using a red part inside their badarka (kayak) for spiritual reasons. The black has always been my thing: my car, my airplane, my clothes... Of course no one will ever see those treble bars.

HR
You should make a guitar with a ribbed body covered with seal skins.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

ernandez R
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Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:14 am

Stephen Faulk wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:08 am
ernandez R wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 pm
Christopher Langley wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:04 pm
Very cool. Nice radial bracing and treble bar.

Curious about the red color :P
Thanx.

The plan is to sand the tone bars of one about half way down and the thre one to one quarter highth and compare their tap tones while glued up without the backs. And depending on what I get I will or will not mode them all although I can't go back with the shorter ones. This is one of the reasons I wanted to make three at once.

The red is a triditional Upik and Aleut, western native Alaskan people's, triditions of using a red part inside their badarka (kayak) for spiritual reasons. The black has always been my thing: my car, my airplane, my clothes... Of course no one will ever see those treble bars.

HR
You should make a guitar with a ribbed body covered with seal skins.
Sadly I'm not the right kind of Native, I'm 1/4 Paiute and my grandfather who was 100% never wanted to register as a native. He was a secusefull dairy farmer in Los Angeles, then his dairy property turned to gold. He thought his children should work hard to make whatever they could of themselves. Most did. One needs to be of an Alaskan native group to harvest certain anamals. I always wanted to make a badarka ( seal skin kayak ) and still might some day. I'm just now at the end of my flying days and anything is posable!

The triditional alute Upik drum was made of walrus stumic lining. I had a standing order for one but by the time I made my way to one who died and had washed up on the beach they were too ripe to get very close and then there was a good chance you were going to have to fight off a brown bear. No kidding. Then there was the time my buddy Alin lands on the beach to harvest the tusks from a dead one, fires up his chainsaw, that's how we do it out here, and the thousand pound plus beast comes awake and feeling a touch angry for having its nap interrupted in such rude manor. It's really hard to run on the sand.

More the info then you wanted?

HR

ps. Seal tastes bad.
Last edited by ernandez R on Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:34 am

Woodworking buddy of mine gave me a small block of spalted black walnut and a larger piece of more dense black walnut. I used the spalted material for my top inlays and just cut up some .040" thick slices for the tail block seam detail. Think I'm going to mirror the top inlay in spruce to match each top, might not ;)

I'm going to use the other piece to make up matching bridges and headstock veneer but I might just use the black walnut for the headstock and stick with the tiger oak for the veneer to match the fretboards like the first two. Idealy I wanted to prefit the necks before glueing the bottom plate in place but think that got me in trouble and I did a lot of extra fitting on the first two.

Last photo shows how I ended up sound baring my tops. I little more variety then I had planed but it will tell me a lot about the direction I need to go with the materials I am using.

I did pull one of the tone bars off to install a longer one and noted an incomplete bond line between the bar and the plate. I had been glueing with a minimum of squeezout but now I know need more glue applied to insure a Compleat bond.

Tapping the tops after glueing them up to the ribs I noticed a rattle on all three which I located in my back kerfed linings. I mixed up a 20% water TBIII mixture and brushed it into the kerfing with an acid brush then wiped off with damp paper towels. The rattley buzz was gone with all three but thinking I'll give it another coat tomorrow,just to,be sure. I will be using solid bindings on the next go around and use more glue for,more,squeezout.

Let's see see what else did I figure out?

RH

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ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:48 am

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I knew there was something else, I know it ismhard to tell in this foto but I turned down the string section of my turning pegs to about 3/16. Sure is much easier to turn them and they don't wrap your knuckles so hard when you have a spinner. Guessing they were 3/8" tapered to about 5/16" at the string hole to,start with. Been wanting to do this for weeks and went to tune her up this evening and unwound the strings instead, walked out to the shop and rigged up something on the drill press to spin them on a tapered hole whilst I went at them with a 90 die grinder. I spared them no mercy ;). Easy peasy now.

HR
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ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:11 am

Fretboard oak...

Second foto is peg project doomed to fail but I refuse to give up as long as I have superglue! Meant for the Mk-I but i glued the blocks together with something stupid. Pulled them out tonight, well... I'm not sure why.

I had made a set of neck wood blanks out of Aspin but decided they need some stiffness. I cut up a well seasoned log of Birch the other day and slit it into 1/4 strips. Decided to slip a couple pieces of black walnut into one but only because I don't have enough to,do,all three. You get the picture...

HR

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Mollbarre
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by Mollbarre » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:57 pm

...
The red is a triditional Upik and Aleut, western native Alaskan people's, triditions of using a red part inside their badarka (kayak) for spiritual reasons. The black has always been my thing: my car, my airplane, my clothes... Of course no one will ever see those treble bars.

HR
That's really cool. I love those little unique/personal touches...even if you can't see them! :)
Last edited by Mollbarre on Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ernandez R
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Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:28 pm

Thanx...

I'm not a fan of excess ornamation or any ornamation but have been inspired by the exceptional level of both tallent and creativity guitar builders. I'm trying to keep it simple and usefull. It only took a second to wipe a little red stain on those sound bars. I used a back sharpy to do,the black one.

The thought that no one will see the inside of the top plate goes through my mind as I'm detailing it. It's a personal thing. The vary best classical I ever played, and owned, was a $580 made in Mexico solid top I found in Seattle years ago. It looked really rough inside. After it burned up in a fire I searched for years to find one with a comparable sound and playability. Lots of stunning shiny wood work inside and out but soulless.

I'm still having issues with my lateral braces intersecting the linings neatly. Hey are looking almost acceptable but not a perfect fit. I think it's so idly important but I feel they should look nice,as well. No one will really even look but I will know. The Mexican guitar I mentioned had bindings that looked like they were cut out of cheep plywood, but now I know they were laminated solid bindings crimped in the old style. Learning more every day!

HR
I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:15 am

Glued up my head stocks and then trimmed them all up. Should just make them up in one pice and the cut the scarf, you know, next time.
I glued them up and glued on one fretboard.

Finished headstock is my first, going to basically do the same but with a 30-1 taper ream and angle them so the tip is pointing toward the guitar, this way they are being pulled into the socket. If the holes are 90 degrees to the head stock the string tension tries to push them out of the socket. Had to read about this on another unrelated thread here a couple weeks ago; the light went on ;)

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I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

ernandez R
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: ernandez Mk-III

Post by ernandez R » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:41 am

Just because.

Trimmed up the fretboard edges etc. layers this first neck on top of a stack of bodies to get an idea of how it will look. This,is the least figured slice of oak out of the three, the tiger striping only being about half way through this block. Hoping there will be some more in another part of the piece it was cut from.

Thinking I'm going to up my friction peg game and make all three. I'll get a set of pehheads cause I want to try them. They'd are ugly as sin...

I might make a set of machines from scratch using only the two gears and crafting new bodies out of aluminum: lighter and slimmer to fit the nerrow headstock. My first build is only 1120 grams and I would like to stay at or bellow 1100. It just feels right and perfectly balanced.

Thought I should add that I am really enjoying this... Couple other outside projects pulling me out of the shop all week but I still make it out there to cut up or glue up some forward progress...

HR
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