Rosettes

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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Mollbarre
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Rosettes

Post by Mollbarre » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:29 pm

I love the rosettes! :D Plain, fancy, I love all of them! I find the process of making them totally intriguing too.

One thing though, how can you tell a real rosette from a decal? I've been looking, and on some super-cheap guitars it's easy to tell - but on some more expensive entry level models, not so much.
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Kent
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Kent » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:25 am

You can easily tell if it is real.
Take a sharp knife and drive it into the sound hole rim. Move the knife back and forth until it reaches the rosette area. If little individual marquetry pieces pop out, it is truly real.

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Mollbarre
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Mollbarre » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:33 am

Don't think the sales floor would appreciate that....but I can always give them your name - as a contact - in case they ask where I got the idea from...
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Pat
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Pat » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:34 am

Is it not mentioned on the maker's website? The maker of my guitar does mention of it's a decal or not, for each model. From what I've seen decals are only used on the cheapest student models.

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Mollbarre
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Mollbarre » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:40 am

Not always. The specs on guitars aren't very even across the board, it's a bit annoying doing comparisons. I even had a hard time finding nut width on some models I was looking at...
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souldier
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Re: Rosettes

Post by souldier » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:32 am

It's quite easy to see the individual pieces of wood, almost like pixels when you look up close to a rosette.. I think it's only on the really cheap guitars that they use a sort of sticker to pass as a rosette. Sadly many people won't notice or care how much effort is put into making these works of art.

What I am really intrigued with is how they are actually made. I have an idea, but the process still isn't totally clear how such detailed work is achieved, especially on the mosaics. Would love to watch some sort of time lapse or tutorial on how it's made. Here is a picture of the rosette on the Frieson I used to own. When one stops to really look up close, you start to notice all the layers and complexity.
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Lovemyguitar
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Lovemyguitar » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:42 am

souldier wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:32 am
...What I am really intrigued with is how they are actually made. I have an idea, but the process still isn't totally clear how such detailed work is achieved, especially on the mosaics. Would love to watch some sort of time lapse or tutorial on how it's made. ...
That is easy enough to find -- either on this forum or do a general internet search "how to make classical guitar rosettes", and that will get you many photos, videos, etc., which will show you exactly how they are made.

They are beautiful works of art, indeed, creative and beautiful and very time-consuming to make. It is no wonder that cheap(er) guitars use decals (or pre-made mosaic rosettes, which can be purchased in bulk if necessary), because of the hours (days or even weeks) it can take to design and make a single rosette.

vesa
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Re: Rosettes

Post by vesa » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:30 am

How to see the difference:
Wood looks like wood
and plastic looks like plastic.

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Stephen Faulk
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Stephen Faulk » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:37 am

Get a magnifying glass or a lupe and start studying rosettes up close. You’ll learn. The sales people will think you’re whack, but who cares.

You can learn a lot by looking At high quality photos online and enlarging them. Sometimes the photography is good enough to blow up and see detail.

I recommend study of the Manuel Ramírez, Santos, Esteso rosettes and Enrique Garcia - Simplicio via good high definition photos if you can find some. Those represent the archetypal rosettes that most others built on.
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Mollbarre
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Mollbarre » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:02 pm

@Souldier: that's beautiful.
vesa wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:30 am
How to see the difference:
Wood looks like wood
and plastic looks like plastic...
Not necessarily on the less expensive models I'm looking at. They all have the glossy finish...

@ Stephen - you're right - the sales people would think I was insane! Plus, a lack of guitars to examine doesn't help...

Guess it will have to be a photo project!
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Beowulf
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Beowulf » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:14 pm

There is an excellent tutorial on making rosettes in Roy Courtnall's book: "Making Master Guitars".
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simonm
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Re: Rosettes

Post by simonm » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:31 pm

I haven't seen a decal for a rosette for ages. Even pretty cheap guitars have real rosettes. I suspect decals are only on the cheapest plywood tops.

Matthew Masail
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Re: Rosettes

Post by Matthew Masail » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:52 pm

souldier wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:32 am
It's quite easy to see the individual pieces of wood, almost like pixels when you look up close to a rosette.. I think it's only on the really cheap guitars that they use a sort of sticker to pass as a rosette. Sadly many people won't notice or care how much effort is put into making these works of art.

What I am really intrigued with is how they are actually made. I have an idea, but the process still isn't totally clear how such detailed work is achieved, especially on the mosaics. Would love to watch some sort of time lapse or tutorial on how it's made. Here is a picture of the rosette on the Frieson I used to own. When one stops to really look up close, you start to notice all the layers and complexity.
That is outstanding.

hans
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Re: Rosettes

Post by hans » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:51 pm

Exquisite if a bit too promotional?
Image

hans
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