Ramirez 1a top repair

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
el_guitarrero
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Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Hello,

i just bought a 1973 1a and it has some dings in the top. As i can see no cracks.

Brought it to a Violin maker and he said, that the only thing to do to cover up PU Lacquer is to put some titebond or nail lacquer onto it... I left somewhat disappointed.

But hey - if it works, why not?

So i wanted to ask for advice among some professionals here in the forum....

Thanks a lot
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Nikos_Greek
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by Nikos_Greek » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:40 pm

Your guitar is something like 47 years old, it is normal that it has dings and scratches. I do not know what effect on sound the proposed restoration may have, in essence you add mass and a strange body to the guitar top, it does not sound good to me, but I am only a layman. I would say enjoy your guitar for what it is and the sound it produces. There is a youtube video of Baruecco playing Asturias. His guitar looks like moon surface, yet the artist makes something worthy out of it. Should we bother much about blemishes like these?

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:02 pm

I remember that at our forum the matter of influence of eventual repair of lacquer on the top of Ramirez 1A guitars has been discussed and it may be a serious thing. I read that the special sonic properties of older Ramirez 1A result also from special formula of lacquer developed in the Ramirez workshop and used there. So I would browse our Forum in search of informations on this matter.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:07 pm

ok Jacek - thanks for this Info!

el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:11 pm

Dear Nikos, i only want to close the heavy dings where the wood can be seen, so that no sweat or moisture can get in....thats all. The rest does not matter, i.e. optical appearance.

el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:12 pm

But I found a crack in the back :-(

I think this should be repaired by a professional luthier?
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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:21 pm

- in my opinion - very much so. I hope that you can contact really good luthier who is also experienced in repairment/conservation of such guitars, and by such occasion perhaps a good specialist would be able to take proper care for the surface of the top plate of this guitar. BTW: do you know who is the builder of your 1A ? (initials or digits inside the guitar).
Ramirez Workshop Luthiers « Blog – Guitar Salon International
https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=4198
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

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souldier
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by souldier » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Guitars with lacquer rather than french polish would probably be quite difficult to repair. If you're not worried about aesthetics I really wouldn't worry about it. I personally like the vintage look, which is the charm that comes with a 40+ year guitar. There is a very low chance those dings and such will pose any problem in the future, unless you like to pour buckets of water on top of your guitar :D.

In regards to the crack on the back, I bet it happened long time ago and has been stable since. I doubt it poses any structural compromise based on its location, but you'll want to get the opinion of a luthier. I know of people with vintage ramirez guitars that have cracks, and they actually don't repair them for fear that it might change the sound.
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el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:25 pm

Souldier, you made my day. I also like its look, really vintage. If the cracks won't do any harm... I will let it probably as it is... Thank you very much!

khayes
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by khayes » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:41 pm

Hi el_guitarrero - I owned a '77 1A for nearly 30 years that I sold last year. It had a crack in the back similar to yours. Years ago, I just cleated it with a piece of hardwood and glue. It did just fine for the entire time I owned it and never got any worse.
Ken

el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:10 pm

Jacek A. Rochacki wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:21 pm
- in my opinion - very much so. I hope that you can contact really good luthier who is also experienced in repairment/conservation of such guitars, and by such occasion perhaps a good specialist would be able to take proper care for the surface of the top plate of this guitar. BTW: do you know who is the builder of your 1A ? (initials or digits inside the guitar).
Ramirez Workshop Luthiers « Blog – Guitar Salon International
https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=4198
Hello Jacek,

found the letter "I" inside - I am also curious who built it....?
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Ken Whisler
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by Ken Whisler » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:41 am

As long as it sounds good, I'd leave it be. Keep it humidified during cold snaps so that the cracks do not open up.
Ken Whisler, guitarist and luthier

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geoff-bristol
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by geoff-bristol » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:56 am

Thw white marks would look better if you just touched them in with some brown stain and a tiny brush. Just enough to colour the light wood - take you eye off it.
Similar to my old trick to get white paint off of red stair carpet - paint the white pint red !

el_guitarrero
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by el_guitarrero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:15 am

:merci:

Thanks for your expertise and advise to both of you! There are wax cover up sticks for wood floors. Can this be used or is it better to use matching (wood) paint?

Nikos_Greek
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Re: Ramirez 1a top repair

Post by Nikos_Greek » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:42 am

concerning the crack at the back, a qualified luthier would be able to fix it easily. Soundwise with or without the crack, with or without repair you will notice no difference in sound whatsoever, the back contributing only something like 5% of the sound a guitar produces. I had an inexpensive Martinez damaged on the top, a nasty crack running for 25 cm alongside the fret towards the soundhole. After the repair I do not notice any difference in sound, the guitar is functional as before, so you should not worry about that!

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