Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:13 pm

Thanks Dave, I didn’t even think about bending to account for the domed back. I will next time for sure.

bftobin
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:02 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by bftobin » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:03 pm

+1 for reinforced tape. Many postal type places carry it, but make sure you use a wash coat of shellac first or you can really tear up your top.
Sometimes a gentle heating with a hairdryer can make it easier to remove as well.

Frederich
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:42 pm
Location: Berea, Ohio

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Frederich » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:00 pm

For cutting bindings channels on domed backs, you could use the StewMac jig (kind of pricey) that holds the router vertical. In this way the depth of cutting is uniform around the whole body. You might try to prevent chipping by looking to the grain of the sides before routing and mark the direction in wich you move the router. Rout only with the grain not against. Carefully you can move the router backward where it needs.

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:24 pm

Frederich wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:00 pm
For cutting bindings channels on domed backs, you could use the StewMac jig (kind of pricey) that holds the router vertical. In this way the depth of cutting is uniform around the whole body. You might try to prevent chipping by looking to the grain of the sides before routing and mark the direction in wich you move the router. Rout only with the grain not against. Carefully you can move the router backward where it needs.
I did the channels by hand which is also part of the problem. Next guitar I’ll be strongly considering the router option. There is a jig in the Bogdonavic book that I may try and make.

Dave M
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Somerset UK

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Dave M » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:27 pm

Anthony I have made a jig for this which has been very successful. A parallelogram arangement which keeps the router vertical while allowing it to follow the dome of the top and back. Using the StewMac bearing guided router cutter to set the width of cut.

I can't just now lay my hands on a photo but if you look around these forums and the web you will see many different versions. I feel that the relatively small effort involved repays itself even for a few guitars, in the clean and accurate rebate that can be produced. And also the sheer speed. After some time spent setting up it is the work of minutes to actually cut the rebates. (The design I used was based on the Gore Gilet design in their book on guitar building.)

Using a fixed base router as seems to be common in the US makes depth adjustment easier.

If I can find a photo I will post later.

I am making a bit of a point about this subject because I think people starting out to build do struggle with the technique, and it is very discouraging having got to the closed box stage to feel that it is not going to look too good. Even though in practise it won't affect the sound or playability of the instrument one nevertheless wants the thing to look good.
Dave

Gregory
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:19 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Gregory » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:42 pm

Say a fine idea and don't update some photos with the jig....please when you find the best time upload some photos..I am interesting to cut the best channels for bindings..

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:47 am

I would love pictures Dave. When you get the time.

Costantino Proietti
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: Rome

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Costantino Proietti » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:04 pm

Anthony DeMers wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:47 am
I would love pictures Dave. When you get the time.
:okok: :okok:
"The variations of design are not important. What is important is that character that allows the player to use fantasy to orchestrate chords by how he uses the fingers." Pepe Romero

Dave M
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Somerset UK

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Dave M » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 pm

Ok I make no great claims for my version - there are many variants around but it does work. The principle is that the guitar box is supported in a cradle with the sides vertical. The router is supported such that it can move up and down but remain vertical. This ensures the rebate is cut parallel to the sides as it should be. The router carriage sits on a circular 'donut' through which the cutter prodrudes to the right depth. The rebate width is defined by the bearing - You need a small selection to suit your binding scheme. I have added a counter weight carried on the large wheel to reduce the weight on the guitar - a spring would do the same.

The photo with the TRend (black) router was my first go at this and shows the cutter arrangement. I made an improved version and added the much higher quality De Walt router which gives great height adjustment. So the box is simply pushed round in the cradle with the router cutter removing the corner.. A couple of goes round cleans the cut.

Hope that's useful. Dave
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Dave

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:19 pm

Dave M wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 pm
Ok I make no great claims for my version - there are many variants around but it does work. The principle is that the guitar box is supported in a cradle with the sides vertical. The router is supported such that it can move up and down but remain vertical. This ensures the rebate is cut parallel to the sides as it should be. The router carriage sits on a circular 'donut' through which the cutter prodrudes to the right depth. The rebate width is defined by the bearing - You need a small selection to suit your binding scheme. I have added a counter weight carried on the large wheel to reduce the weight on the guitar - a spring would do the same.

The photo with the TRend (black) router was my first go at this and shows the cutter arrangement. I made an improved version and added the much higher quality De Walt router which gives great height adjustment. So the box is simply pushed round in the cradle with the router cutter removing the corner.. A couple of goes round cleans the cut.

Hope that's useful. Dave
Thanks Dave! I’ll study these carefully.

Eduardo Bossa
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:44 pm
Location: Cartagena, Colombia

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Eduardo Bossa » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:58 am

Hi Anthony,

I would advise against using clear CA to hide the gaps in the binding and rosette in this case. CA works wonderfully with darker woods, especially rosewood. On lighter woods like your cypress and spruce, CA darkens the wood considerably. Yes, you could seal with shellac and then apply the CA; you would end up with a level surface, but the transparent CA won't hide the gap. I would try mixing different color wood putties until you find a close match, and fill the gaps with this. Once sanded and level, you could even draw a few grain lines very carefully with a thin marker if needed. This helps break the outline of the fix. As always, you should try it out first on a piece of scrap. If done carefully, it could be almost impossible to spot under the finish.

I have also seen some opaque dyes you can use to color the CA. I have never tried these out, but it might be another option (if you can find the right color). Perhaps some other forum members have tried this and can give you further advice.

Please let us know how everything turns out.
www.eduardobossaguitarras.com

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:47 am

Well, I made quite the mistake yesterday. I had clamped the neck of the guitar into my vice and because of the taper in the neck, it slipped out when I turned around to get a phone call. It crashed down on cement! I finished my phone call and then called a very helpful local builder who talked me through my next steps. Then I picked up the pieces and started puzzling them back together. A piece of the perfling was lost so I had to replace a small segment of that. Once all the pieces were in place, including some very small chips, I started glueing it all together with CA glue. After it was dry I sanded it flat again. I’ve ordered the tilting jaws for the parrot vice and I don’t plan on making this mistake ever again.
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Eduardo Bossa
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:44 pm
Location: Cartagena, Colombia

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Eduardo Bossa » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:29 pm

Ouch!!
www.eduardobossaguitarras.com

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:15 am

So I put on my bridge before I completed the French polish and the string break angle on my saddle is way too shallow. The guitar still sounds amazing and it’s surprisingly loud, but everything I’ve read tells me it will really make a difference to get a sharper angle. Anyone have any good advice?

Here are my ideas so far. I’ll be removing the strings and the tuning machines anyway to complete the FP so I may as well remove the bridge. I had to remove the bridge on my first build and it was not that difficult. Should I consider the 12 hole tie? Or maybe just fill he old ones and try again?

Over all things are turning out great for this build the despite the several setbacks and mistakes. I’m excited to be wrapping things up in the next few weeks.
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MessyTendon
Amateur luthier
Posts: 1943
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:33 am

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:45 am

where did you get the cypress? I'd love to have some California cypress.

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