Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:01 am

MessyTendon wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:45 am
where did you get the cypress? I'd love to have some California cypress.
It was given to me by a very generous local luthier. From what I gather it came from a fallen tree several years back and he had selected it from a stack of boards in Watsonville. There was only one quality board in the stack. Too many knots and other imperfections. I’m hoping that the many cypress trees that went down this winter were harvested, and some day we will see them
again.

ernandez R
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by ernandez R » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:11 am

Anthony,

About your bridge, what size are your string holes? They look big in the photo. I drill mine 1/16" I think.

It looks like the groov between your aft saddle support and tie block could be deeper and this will get you more space for more angle.

I'm a complete nube so take my two cents for what it's worth.

I changed a bridge in less then an hour in my second build. I just ground it off after laying a layer of tape around it to protect the sourounding wood. The second bridged I glued on looked way better anyway.

HR
I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 am

ernandez R wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:11 am
Anthony,

About your bridge, what size are your string holes? They look big in the photo. I drill mine 1/16" I think.

It looks like the groov between your aft saddle support and tie block could be deeper and this will get you more space for more angle.

I'm a complete nube so take my two cents for what it's worth.

I changed a bridge in less then an hour in my second build. I just ground it off after laying a layer of tape around it to protect the sourounding wood. The second bridged I glued on looked way better anyway.

HR
I just took the bridge off. I’m going to fill the string holes and then drill them again. I do have room to dig out the groove if I need to. I’m not as concerned about having the maximum break angle just some at all. I’ll also take off the tie block cap and make another one. The string holes were half way into the bone. I though it looked neat but I wasnt thinking about break angle at all. While I’m at it I think I’ll try and lower the bridge just a franction more. I was able to get the action on the 1st string to 2.0mm but that was as low as it could have gone.

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Keith
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Location: Back living in the Moonbat State

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Keith » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:28 am

since this build is a flamenco, one quick question--what is the string height from the sound board to the top of the saddle? If it is on the high side it seems to this non-luthier that you might get a little more angle by taking a little off the bottom of the bridge. between lowering the bridge height , lowering the tie block and re-drilling the holes this might get you in the ballpark you want.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

guitarras en la espiritu de la:
Marcelo Barbero
Jose Ramirez III

Jasonm
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:05 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Jasonm » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:25 pm

Wow nice save!

My Blanca had a shallow break angle on the treble side like yours in the picture. Made it a twelve hole and it made a big difference. Not so much in tone but in improved tension on the strings.

ernandez R
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by ernandez R » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:24 pm

I hit the strings hard and find without a good amount of angle I get some string movement. Might be a matter of poor playing technic thoug

HR
I hate sanding wood or anything else for that matter I just happen to be good at it...

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:40 am

Keith wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:28 am
since this build is a flamenco, one quick question--what is the string height from the sound board to the top of the saddle? If it is on the high side it seems to this non-luthier that you might get a little more angle by taking a little off the bottom of the bridge. between lowering the bridge height , lowering the tie block and re-drilling the holes this might get you in the ballpark you want.
It’s at 6.5-6mm depending on where I measure. I may just take a bit off the top of the saddle slot just to have a bit more saddle showing. While we’re on the subject, does anyone know of a decant way to fill the holes? Toothpicks and rosewood dust was my first thought.

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:42 am

ernandez R wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:24 pm
I hit the strings hard and find without a good amount of angle I get some string movement. Might be a matter of poor playing technic thoug

HR
It was explained to me that a notched saddle can help with a low angle. But mine had almost none on the high e.

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 am

Jasonm wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:25 pm
Wow nice save!

My Blanca had a shallow break angle on the treble side like yours in the picture. Made it a twelve hole and it made a big difference. Not so much in tone but in improved tension on the strings.
Thanks! Not sure if you are talking about catching the break angle or putting back the pieces from the drop but I’ll take it.

I’ve been interested in the 12 hole bridge. Hope to try it out on the next build.

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Keith
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Location: Back living in the Moonbat State

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Keith » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:40 pm

6-6.5mm is getting close to the low end for a blanca. I am curious as to the action for the current set up. if it is where you want it then the 12 hole should get you in the ballpark. I had a 12 hole tie block on a previous guitar and the break angle was significantly different tying 12 hole vs 6 hole on that guitar (I did it just to see the difference). a 12 hole will eliminate the need to lower the tie block height. if the action for the current set up is higher then my non-luthier mind wonders if there may be a neck angle issue.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

guitarras en la espiritu de la:
Marcelo Barbero
Jose Ramirez III

Matthew Masail
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:57 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Matthew Masail » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:12 pm

What is the height of the string holes from the bottom of the bridge?

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:15 pm

Keith wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:40 pm
6-6.5mm is getting close to the low end for a blanca. I am curious as to the action for the current set up. if it is where you want it then the 12 hole should get you in the ballpark. I had a 12 hole tie block on a previous guitar and the break angle was significantly different tying 12 hole vs 6 hole on that guitar (I did it just to see the difference). a 12 hole will eliminate the need to lower the tie block height. if the action for the current set up is higher then my non-luthier mind wonders if there may be a neck angle issue.
The action is good. I’m at 2.0 on the treble e and 3.0 on the bass. I still have enough saddle to get the bass down closer to 2.6-8. Im also planning on shaving the saddle slot highly down to give me a little wiggle room. I’ll strongly consider the 12 hole, but I’m leaning more towards redrilling at this point. As soon as I can figure out how to fill the exsisting holes that is. Thanks for your input.

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:16 pm

Matthew Masail wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:12 pm
What is the height of the string holes from the bottom of the bridge?
3.5mm

Matthew Masail
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:57 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Matthew Masail » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:10 pm

Anthony DeMers wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:16 pm
Matthew Masail wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:12 pm
What is the height of the string holes from the bottom of the bridge?
3.5mm
Thanks. What I am thinking is that the distance from the tie block where the string exit to the saddle look like 10mm + ? so for your given hieght (super low 6-6.5 if I read correctly) both of these could be improved. since your tie block isn't high above the holes at this point I am not sure lowering the string holes would help very much, and if you lower the tie block to match drilling the string holes lower than 3mm you leave very little wood in the middle of the bridge once you expose the holes, strong rosewood maybe It'll be fine, but in this case I would convert the bridge to 12 holes, if you look at the pictures you'll the knot pulls the string up at least 1mm if not more. On the other hand if you already mean to remove the bridge then why not make a new one, drill the holes at 3mm, keep the tie block low as you already did, and make the distance from the tie block to the saddle 8mm. so make the tie block wider\move the saddle slot back or a little of both, then I think you will have enough break angle with 6 holes.

Anthony DeMers
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Monterey Cypress/Engelman Spruce

Post by Anthony DeMers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:10 pm

[/quote]

Thanks. What I am thinking is that the distance from the tie block where the string exit to the saddle look like 10mm + ? so for your given hieght (super low 6-6.5 if I read correctly) both of these could be improved. since your tie block isn't high above the holes at this point I am not sure lowering the string holes would help very much, and if you lower the tie block to match drilling the string holes lower than 3mm you leave very little wood in the middle of the bridge once you expose the holes, strong rosewood maybe It'll be fine, but in this case I would convert the bridge to 12 holes, if you look at the pictures you'll the knot pulls the string up at least 1mm if not more. On the other hand if you already mean to remove the bridge then why not make a new one, drill the holes at 3mm, keep the tie block low as you already did, and make the distance from the tie block to the saddle 8mm. so make the tie block wider\move the saddle slot back or a little of both, then I think you will have enough break angle with 6 holes.
[/quote]

This makes lots of sense. Appreciate you explaining everything so well. The bridge is off already but you are right about simply making another. Somehow I’m already attached to this one so I’ll probobly just make the best of it. The feedback on this forum is the best.

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